USSSA A player guest in a USSSA C tourney

[qsort]

If you look at the team’s USSSA online roster and click “show all seasons” it shows the following for this player (with names changed):

Jane Doe
2015 Trophy Hunters FPGirls14&UC
2015 The A-Team FPGirls14&UA

Jane Doe was not on the Trophy Hunters roster as of the Wednesday before the tournament. How do I know this? Because we played (and beat) the Trophy Hunters in pool play. Since the schedule for pool play is available several days beforehand, I typically go to the online USSSA roster and enter the team’s roster into Gamechanger. In our Saturday pool play game, Jane Doe was not there nor was she listed on the lineup card.

The next day, we were matched against the Trophy Hunters for the first bracket game. We were the higher seed. The other team handed me the lineup card which included Jane Doe. I went online to see if she had been added to the USSSA roster, and she was there with the information as shown above.

Every other girl on the Trophy Hunters had a name on the back of their jersey. Not Jane Doe. She was clearly a guest or a new addition so we went and asked the tournament director. The tournament director said she was a guest player. The team that she came from, The A-Team, is a 14U A team and has played multiple 14U Open tournaments in 2015.

 

[CoogansBluff]

If you look at the team’s USSSA online roster and click “show all seasons” it shows the following for this player (with names changed):

Jane Doe
2015 Trophy Hunters FPGirls14&UC
2015 The A-Team FPGirls14&UA

Jane Doe was not on the Trophy Hunters roster as of the Wednesday before the tournament. How do I know this? Because we played (and beat) the Trophy Hunters in pool play. Since the schedule for pool play is available several days beforehand, I typically go to the online USSSA roster and enter the team’s roster into Gamechanger. In our Saturday pool play game, Jane Doe was not there nor was she listed on the lineup card.

The next day, we were matched against the Trophy Hunters for the first bracket game. We were the higher seed. The other team handed me the lineup card which included Jane Doe. I went online to see if she had been added to the USSSA roster, and she was there with the information as shown above.

Every other girl on the Trophy Hunters had a name on the back of their jersey. Not Jane Doe. She was clearly a guest or a new addition so we went and asked the tournament director. The tournament director said she was a guest player. The team that she came from, The A-Team, is a 14U A team and has played multiple 14U Open tournaments in 2015.

What was the score vs. the Trophy Hunters? Did they win the tournament? What were their scores in bracket play?

 

[qsort]

Seems like the A-B-C thing is a much bigger part of the softball culture in some areas than others. In my experience in NC and GA, I couldn't tell you which teams are A, B or C. You just sign up for a tournament and the director will divide it up however he/she sees fit. There are some B tournaments that discourage or don't allow A teams, but in most cases, it's just 'we're having a tournament, you sign up, we'll do the best we can to make it fun and fair.' I don't think anyone would notice if a player from an A team was a guest player for a B or even a C team. If the player was a true ringer, the issue would be that she's a ringer, not the technicality that she's on an A-level team.

Our team is a mix of 12U and 13U girls with varying skill levels. We play a mix of 14U B and C tournaments. When we play B, we usually end up in the silver bracket. When we play C, we do so with the idea that we can spread out the playing time a little more while still remaining competitive. My beef is that we specifically signed up for and paid for a C tournament...and USSSA Central PA gave us something else.

 

[qsort]

What was the score vs. the Trophy Hunters? Did they win the tournament? What were their scores in bracket play?

In pool play we beat the Trophy Hunters 9-4 using our #2 and #3 pitchers. In the first bracket game, we went with the same two pitchers and they won 5-3. Jane Doe pitched a full 7 innings. It was a good game, but the difference was clearly the ringer, pitching and batting lead off. The Trophy Hunters lost the semi-final 7-6 and then lost the 3rd place game 8-2.

 

[CoogansBluff]

In pool play we beat the Trophy Hunters 9-4 using our #2 and #3 pitchers. In the first bracket game, we went with the same two pitchers and they won 5-3. Jane Doe pitched a full 7 innings. It was a good game, but the difference was clearly the ringer, pitching and batting lead off. The Trophy Hunters lost the semi-final 7-6 and then lost the 3rd place game 8-2.

You are upset at the team that finished fourth?

They only beat you 5-3. Your team got to face an A-level pitcher. You had a ''good game,'' by your own admission.

This is why I don't like places that have strict definitions of A, B and C. People get too caught up in the letters. Goal should be to have tournaments that produce ''good games.'' You got one. I don't see the beef.

 

[qsort]

You are upset at the team that finished fourth?

They only beat you 5-3. Your team got to face an A-level pitcher. You had a ''good game,'' by your own admission.

This is why I don't like places that have strict definitions of A, B and C. People get too caught up in the letters. Goal should be to have tournaments that produce ''good games.'' You got one. I don't see the beef.

From a softball perspective, we had 3 good games this weekend....but it should have been more. We have girls on our team that could use the extra playing time. Had the other team not played a ringer, we would have gotten deeper into Sunday and the team would have gotten more experience and game time as a whole.

I don't care how the Trophy Hunters placed. I don't care where we placed. What I care about is that we traveled and paid for a C tournament and that isn't what we got.

 

[mgardner]

Is it legal for a player from an A team to guest play in a C level tourney? Is it allowed in some states but not others?

Great question, and one you will get differing answers to. Answers would still differ if it were an A player guesting in an A tournament or a B player in a B tournament. In my opinion the rule book is unclear at best concerning the issue of playing with other teams. I don't find the word guest anywhere in the USSSA rule book. Is there anything about A or B classifications for teams or players in the rule book? I couldn't find anything.

I did find this:

ARTICLE IV. INDIVIDUAL PLAYER ELIGIBILITY
Sec.1. A player is eligible to compete in the USSSA Fastpitch program as long as
they abide by the fastpitch by-laws and playing rules, when listed as a member
of an eligible team.
Sec.2. A player shall not compete in any sanctioned tournament of the association
with more than one team during the same tournament.

..."more than one team in the same tournament". Is that an implication that playing with more than one team in the same season is permissible? If so, under what circumstances?

My best understanding of this is it is up to each state to rule on this. But I have seen it both allowed and disallowed by tournament directors in Ohio.

 

[CoogansBluff]

From a softball perspective, we had 3 good games this weekend....but it should have been more. We have girls on our team that could use the extra playing time. Had the other team not played a ringer, we would have gotten deeper into Sunday and the team would have gotten more experience and game time as a whole.

I don't care how the Trophy Hunters placed. I don't care where we placed. What I care about is that we traveled and paid for a C tournament and that isn't what we got.

So you played in C so that you could get more game experience and game time. Perhaps the Trophy Hunters added this guest player so that they could get more game experience and game time. What's the difference? If it's illegal, then you have a point. Otherwise, aren't you and the Trophy Hunters' both doing the same thing, putting your team and players in a situation to give them more game experience and game time?

Granted, I have not been in an area where there are strict definitions of A, B and C. If I were in your area, I might see it differently. But I'm not concerned about the strength of individual players. It's about placing teams in groups that make sense. Sounds to me this team was in the right group.

 

[knightsb]

From the Kansas & Missouri USSSA Fastpitch Roster Rules

Pick-Up Player Rules: All pick-up player forms MUST to be submitted by 9pm Thursday.

• You MUST play the classification/age of the highest classed player on your team. For example, a 14B team needs to pick up 3 players for the weekend, so they decide to pick up 2 players from a 14B team and 1 player from a 14A team. In this example ,the team must now play 14A or above because of the 14A player that belongs to a 14A team. We are okay with pick -players but need teams to pick up players from a team that is classed the same as your team or lower. In addition, if your team picks up a player that is rostered as a 16B player, the team must play 16B with that player.
• "B" teams are allowed to pick-up A rostered players from a younger age team. Example: a 14B team may pick-up a player from a 12A team for the weekend.
• Pick-up players for "C" teams may only come from other "C" teams. "C" teams are not allowed to pick up a player rostered on an A or B team at any age. NO A/B PLAYERS AS PICK-UP PLAYERS FOR C TEAMS.
• If a "C" team picks up a player registered to a higher age "C" team, they will be required to play at the age/division of that player is registered to.
• League Rosters will not be considered when looking at a player's registered class.

 

[TMoney]

It never occured to me to ever check another teams roster. I was way too busy and focused on trying to get my team to do what they needed to do to get better. IMO, any energy spent doing anything else was wasted. I'm sure there are teams out there that check every little thing, and that is ok, I'm just saying I never had the time or desire. We showed up and played whomever was in the other dugout.