USSSA A player guest in a USSSA C tourney

[CoogansBluff]

What is a C team? Does USSSA have a definition for it?

 

[knightsb]

What is a C team? Does USSSA have a definition for it?

Here locally, it is self classification. The local USSSA directors do a good job of reclassifying teams who are sandbagging.

The C class here offers Rec level teams a chance to test the waters with travel ball. Our Rec seasons are usually May-mid June. The Rec season usually consists of around 10 games give or take depending on the number of teams in the league. They usually play two times a week. I like the concept of the C class as a way for Rec players to try travel ball. That's how we got our start.

I understand the OPs frustration, especially if the guest player is A level AND a pitcher playing in a C level tournament.

 

[qsort]

So you played in C so that you could get more game experience and game time. Perhaps the Trophy Hunters added this guest player so that they could get more game experience and game time. What's the difference? If it's illegal, then you have a point. Otherwise, aren't you and the Trophy Hunters' both doing the same thing, putting your team and players in a situation to give them more game experience and game time?

Granted, I have not been in an area where there are strict definitions of A, B and C. If I were in your area, I might see it differently. But I'm not concerned about the strength of individual players. It's about placing teams in groups that make sense. Sounds to me this team was in the right group.

Are you suggesting that perhaps we should have brought our own ringers to the tournament to enhance the possibility of getting more game time? Let's see...bring in a ringer...sit a girl whose has been practicing with the team and has paid to play on that team...the ringer's skills increase....the girl who sits in place of the ringer gets nothing.

In no way are we doing the same thing. We are developing the skills of the girls on our team. The Trophy Hunters are developing the skills of the ringer and devaluing any of that team's achievements in the eyes of the girls on their roster.

 

[JAD]

I've lived and played in GA and NC and have never heard of this being illegal. Don't know the official USSSA rule, but I have never seen tournament directors in those stats take issue with this.

We are in GA, and the only tournaments here that the TD is really concerned about who is on the roster is ASA qualifiers. Every other tournament they just want to make sure that all of the players are covered by the teams insurance. We do have some TDs who specialize in C-level tournaments and they have on occasion "redlined" a pitcher. "Redlining" means that they are allowed to play, but cannot pitch.

 

[qsort]

It never occured to me to ever check another teams roster. I was way too busy and focused on trying to get my team to do what they needed to do to get better. IMO, any energy spent doing anything else was wasted. I'm sure there are teams out there that check every little thing, and that is ok, I'm just saying I never had the time or desire. We showed up and played whomever was in the other dugout.

I'm not the coach, I'm just the dad doing Gamechanger, so my responsibilities are minimal...and it's pretty easy to take 5 minutes at some point in the 1-2 days before pool play to type the rosters of the scheduled opponents from the USSSA site into the Gamerchanger site. Earlier this season one of our opponents played a girl who wasn't on their roster. We would have never caught it otherwise.

 

[JJsqueeze]

How truly dominant was this pitcher? Was she head and shoulders above all the other pitchers you faced? a 5-3 score does not seem like she was lights out. Did you lose any other games in the tourney?

 

[CoogansBluff]

The C class here offers Rec level teams a chance to test the waters with travel ball. Our Rec seasons are usually May-mid June. The Rec season usually consists of around 10 games give or take depending on the number of teams in the league. They usually play two times a week. I like the concept of the C class as a way for Rec players to try travel ball. That's how we got our start.

OK, so you're saying C class is for rec teams? Or entry-level travel teams formed from rec players? I can see the purpose, although I think there's still a better way. Any time you start having strict levels, it will breed unnecessary technical complains about things that aren't really problems.

I understand the OPs frustration, especially if the guest player is A level AND a pitcher playing in a C level tournament.

I still don't. Well, I kinda do, because once you start defining teams strictly as A, B and C, people freak out when they have to play a team rated from a higher level.

The way I see it, tournaments should group teams based on the ability of the teams. This 'ringer' team finished 4th. You say the guest player is A level, but if that's true, how did she give up 3 runs to a C-level team? Just because you play on an A team doesn't mean you are a ringer in C. And if if she is, I still don't care about individual players. It's the strength of the team that matters to me. If the team had won the tournament and given up 2 runs in 25 innings, that's a little different.

I don't believe in rating teams or players A, B or C. Teams can self-rate if that helps as a starting point, but after that, play them based on their results. If you've got 100 teams in 14U, rank them based on their results. If 12 sign up for a tournament, split them 6 and 6. If it's four A teams and two B+ teams, that's fine. If two C teams have to play with the weaker B teams, let it be. If the tournament director believes those 4 teams in C are really that much weaker than the B's, then divided it up 8 and 4.

 

[qsort]

How truly dominant was this pitcher? Was she head and shoulders above all the other pitchers you faced? a 5-3 score does not seem like she was lights out. Did you lose any other games in the tourney?

We lost our second pool game 6-1 to the eventual tournament winner. Their pitcher had a WHIP of 0.8. I'm pretty sure this was their #1.

The ringer for Trophy Hunters had a WHIP of 0.57.

 

[canyonjoe]

IMHO the vast majority of teams are correctly classified with a few that seem to trophy hunt (or just play all the time). It's up the TD to make sure if you advertise a tournament as C teams that it's C teams playing. When I play a tournament I expect that most players are reasonable the right level and age. Could I slip a 15 year old in to play 14U? Of course it can be done.

I'm not sure how High School works, but in Nevada they just finished so it's possible this girl just came off of a High School team and is not an A player.

 

[JAD]

I'm not the coach, I'm just the dad doing Gamechanger, so my responsibilities are minimal...and it's pretty easy to take 5 minutes at some point in the 1-2 days before pool play to type the rosters of the scheduled opponents from the USSSA site into the Gamerchanger site. Earlier this season one of our opponents played a girl who wasn't on their roster. We would have never caught it otherwise.

Using pickup players is pretty common in GA, so you could drive yourself crazy trying to track every teams roster. Plus the only requirement for the team is to turn in a roster before the tournament (for insurance purposes), so the coach can put anyone on there he wants.