Umpire's Call

[Mr T]

What do you think about interference? ASA says it can apply to coaches, can be verbal, meant to confuse?

Personally I don't expect the umps to protect anyone from bush league plays, but on the other hand, I have had an ump call interference for offensive coaches yelling instructions meant to confuse the defense. Maybe that is an ump inserting himself into a game too much, but at the younger ages I am not going to argue that call.

 

[Umpire]

You're mixing up when something is "allowed" and when something is "a rule violation".

I could come up with an infinitely long list of things a batter might do that aren't addressed by a specific rule. Is a batter allowed to take practice swings between pitches? Are they allowed to wipe dirt on their hands? Can they shake their head "no" if they don't understand a sign from the third base coach? Can they grip the bat with a choke grip, four inches above the knob?

By your logic, the rules don't say a batter can do any of these things so that must mean that they're not allowed to do them.

Again, this BATTER is covered by all of the rules pertaining to BATTERS. If there is no rule that prohibits an action by the batter, then there is no penalty associated with the batter doing it.

Sure there are. I quoted them. You ignore them. Read the headings of the sections of the rules. They spell out what a batter can and cannot do. You can't say that a topic that covers what the batter can do regarding certain situations isn't inclusive of what is allowed or not allowed. That doesn't make any sense grammatically or logically.

 

[BretMan]

What do you think about interference? ASA says it can apply to coaches, can be verbal, meant to confuse?

Read a little further into the definition. For it to be interference, the act must in some way hinder the defense from making a play (ie: hinder an attempt to actually record an out).

Did this batter, or her coach, prevent the defense from retiring an active runner? The tag apportunity was there and the catcher was perfectly capable of making it if she chose to.

 

[BretMan]

Sure there are (rules that apply here). I quoted them. You ignore them.

No, I'm not ignoring them. I'm rejecting them as being applicable to this play, but only after taking them into careful consideration.

While I would consider you to be an experienced umpire, you're not an "authorative source" (and neither am I). By "authorative source", I mean an official interpretation published by a given sanctioning body. I don't think that you're going to find anything that covers this play. If it did exist, then I'm sure someone here would have trotted it out by now.

If you bothered to read my posts on this, you'd know that I consider this to be a grey area under the rules and believe that an umpire should do whatever he thinks is right to manage the game at hand. I'm not rejected the idea of calling time here, and even presented case plays for similar (but not the same) plays that recommend that. Personally, I lean toward not calling time. My "default", if you will, is that the players need to be aware of the count and game situation and act accordingly.

 

[02Crush]

02 Crush, while clearly this is a bush league play and the other teams coaches should be ashamed of themselves, what I don't understand is why were your coaches not yelling at the catcher to tag the baserunner who delayed steal of home. It's seems to me that not only did your defense get duped by this play but your coaching staff also got fooled. We always tell our players to finish the play whether or not they think time may or may not have been called. I'm sure your team will never be fooled by these tactics again.

FYI, We were not fooled again this past weekend. In the end this was a good lesson of things we sometimes to forget to remind the girls of. On a side note. We are trying to stop yelling out what to do all the time and let the girls learn to make decisions for themselves. Very tough at time.

 

[02Crush]

We did play this weekend with USSSA

 

[3afan]

..... The players need to be aware of the count and game situation and act accordingly.

exactly!!!

 

[cmustangsfp]

You're mixing up when something is "allowed" and when something is "a rule violation".

I could come up with an infinitely long list of things a batter might do that aren't addressed by a specific rule. Is a batter allowed to take practice swings between pitches? Are they allowed to wipe dirt on their hands? Can they shake their head "no" if they don't understand a sign from the third base coach? Can they grip the bat with a choke grip, four inches above the knob?

By your logic, the rules don't say a batter can do any of these things so that must mean that they're not allowed to do them.

Again, this BATTER is covered by all of the rules pertaining to BATTERS. If there is no rule that prohibits an action by the batter, then there is no penalty associated with the batter doing it.

None of those things you stated would be an attempt to fool the defense or otherwise delay the game. So could the batter (while the catcher still has the ball) yell out I am going to pinch run for the girl on 3rd base, take off towards 3B and have the girl on 3b trot towards her and touch home? Would that be illegal? The batter is not allowed to make pinch runner substitutions, only the coach is. But if there is no rule being violated only confusion caused by the batter, it is OK then? How would you rule if that play happened to you?

 

[Ajaywill]

None of those things you stated would be an attempt to fool the defense or otherwise delay the game. So could the batter (while the catcher still has the ball) yell out I am going to pinch run for the girl on 3rd base, take off towards 3B and have the girl on 3b trot towards her and touch home? Would that be illegal? The batter is not allowed to make pinch runner substitutions, only the coach is. But if there is no rule being violated only confusion caused by the batter, it is OK then? How would you rule if that play happened to you?

Easy one....if the runner on third touched home without being tagged, score the run on the stolen base. If the catcher or any other defensive player tags the runner on third before she touches the plate or returns to third base, OUT. There could also be interference by the batter if they interfere with the defense making a play on the runner.

It's a live ball, the runner has the opportunity and the allowance to attempt to advance...I am not killing the play and depriving the offense OR the defense from trying to make a play. Either way, when the play is over, the batter comes back up to bat.

 

[BretMan]

None of those things you stated would be an attempt to fool the defense or otherwise delay the game.

So? I thought that we were discussing the batting rules as a whole, with respect to things a batter may or may not do, not just "attempts to fool the defense".

Okay....a batter comes to the plate, squares up to bunt, then at the last second takes a full swing. Would that be an attempt to "fool the defense"? Do the rules say the batter is allowed to do that? What is the penalty?

(Yes, this is getting more ridiculous by the minute. Maybe if we play "what if" long enough somebody will finally get a ruling they like! )

So could the batter (while the catcher still has the ball) yell out I am going to pinch run for the girl on 3rd base, take off towards 3B and have the girl on 3b trot towards her and touch home? Would that be illegal? The batter is not allowed to make pinch runner substitutions, only the coach is. But if there is no rule being violated only confusion caused by the batter, it is OK then?

Since you brought up this third-world secenario...you tell us. What rule do you think is being violated and what is the penalty? Please find us a rule that prohibits "confusing the defense".

How would you rule if that play happened to you?

Well, it's not like it's something I've ever given much thought to. I don't usually spend my time thinking up rulings for plays that will never happen in a zillion years. I suppose I'd handle it like I handle it any other time when a batter leaves the batter's box when they're not supposed to.

Batter: (Trotting down to third) I'm going to pinch run for the girl on third now.

Me: No, you're not. Get back in the box.

Then I'll apply the real rules that are really in the book if the batter further delays the game (10 seconds/penalty strike).