Travel Ball Parent Confessions

[GOINGDEEP]

The 4 runs scoring clearly referred to other situations. In any event, your focus on the lead runner, the runner that DOES NOT MATTER, lands you in the 95% club as well. This would be shocking to me, but I've seen it for 3 years.

I'm going to post on this despite my hurt back and meds. But youre focusing on a big girl ( stealing 2nd ) who can't run delaying a throw down tag, delaying the run play at the plate. Not a good plan.

I'd still go for the SS play and take my chance with the tie runner on second with 2 outs. But I'd have to know I had the pitching to get it done also.

Your idea........... Double play is not going to happen with a slow runner stealing. Runs scores, slow poke out at 2nd. ( two outs ) A walk, a pass/wild ball steal, a hit and it's a tie game. Then a gap shot and you lose. That's where good pitching sorts out the equation.

 

[Momo'sDad]

If you beat us by hitting well, then you beat us with hits, but you're not going to beat us because we failed to get outs when we had the opportunity to.

In the case described above, we care about getting 1 out and don't care which 1 it is. If the catcher feels R2 is essentially giving herself up, then it's a pretty safe play to go for her. Up 2 runs in the last, I don't see any justification whatsoever for conceding 2B when there was a play to be made.

Once they are down to their last out and have only 1 runner on, the offensive team has a lot fewer options and we've got more ways to end the ballgame.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

If you beat us by hitting well, then you beat us with hits, but you're not going to beat us because we failed to get outs when we had the opportunity to.

In the case described above, we care about getting 1 out and don't care which 1 it is. If the catcher feels R2 is essentially giving herself up, then it's a pretty safe play to go for her. Up 2 runs in the last, I don't see any justification whatsoever for conceding 2B when there was a play to be made.

Once they are down to their last out and have only 1 runner on, the offensive team has a lot fewer options and we've got more ways to end the ballgame.

They throw down to get big girl out, runner scores. No way around it. One run game, and the momentum just changed to the offense. Gap closes and a chance in the air. At 12U pressure is on the pitcher, this is a championship national game where she ( if the ace ) is probably getting close to an empty tank of gas.

Get that runner on 3rd out, leave last out on second. ( long way from home ) A pop up, a weak grounder, a routine force out at 1st.........wins the game.

Sounds like pitcher buckled and let the 4 runs score. I'd call all low pitches, to keep it in the infield. But hey, what do I know about pitching?

 

[Momo'sDad]

Up 1 run with 1 out, we would follow your prescription and go for the lead runner at 3B if the opportunity presents itself and the tying run is left at 2B. Even if R1 creates a rundown situation and R2 makes it around to 3B, it was still the right play.

Up 2 runs with 1 out, though, any out is more important than 1 run. We'll take a 1-run lead with the bases empty and 2 outs any day of the week.

 

[Conflicted]

you all are still assuming an out at second. IMO that is a bad assumption and the downside of not getting that out is huge. A really good 12u catcher/ss maybe makes that play 50% of the time even against the slow runner you describe. If you throw to second you are trading a run for a 50% shot at an out. You are not trading a run for an out. Make the team hit to beat you. The team didn't make Nationals with a pitcher that had over .500 BA against.

 

[PA SB Dad]

Here's but one example from 12U nationals last year. It's the final inning and our team has a TWO run lead. One out. Other team has runners at first and third. Runner at first had just walked. She is a bigger girl, not very fast. Because the other coach is also not very bright, he has the runner at first steal second on the first pitch. Our coach never let the catcher throw down to second with a runner on third all season (another point of contention), and this wasn't going to be an exception. The girl stole second without a throw. Can anyone explain the logic? Our catcher has a strong arm. Make that a very strong, accurate arm (no, not my DD). The other team is pretty much conceding an out. If the runner from thrid scores, so what? We have a two run lead, and it is the final inning. You have just allowed the tying run to steal second - uncontested. I mean what's the better situation? One has us up by two runs but with only one out and the tying run at second. The other has us up by one run but with two outs and the bases empty.

Actually, at 12U, we taught this last year. If we have runners at 1st and 3rd with the situation you describe, and have a slow runner at 1B, call a fake steal. R1 leaves the bag late, takes a look 1/3 the way down, and if the catcher holds the ball, continues to 2B. If the ball is thrown to 2B, R1 retreats to 1B. R3 has to make a decision whether the throw down is a decoy to try and get her on a double steal. Usually we hold tight the first time to see whether a play is on, and see what they are doing and how well they execute it. The whole point is to force the defense to react to what you are doing, and pressure them to make quick decisions and execute it perfectly. As the coach on offense, I would take those odds anytime. As the coach on defense, a well coached opponent can make you look very silly and have you throwing the ball all over the field before you know it.

 

[Sweet Lou]

you all are still assuming an out at second. IMO that is a bad assumption and the downside of not getting that out is huge. A really good 12u catcher/ss maybe makes that play 50% of the time even against the slow runner you describe. If you throw to second you are trading a run for a 50% shot at an out. You are not trading a run for an out. Make the team hit to beat you. The team didn't make Nationals with a pitcher that had over .500 BA against.

I think a lot depends on the cacther. Some teams have catchers who throw runners out at 2nd more than 50% of the time. If I do, I have my catcher throw down to try and elimiate the tying run from getting to 2nd. Largely because I believe in playing to win and not playing to not lose. If I have a ctacher where it is less than a 50/50 proposition that we get the out I probably throw to 2B in front of 2nd base to see if I can catch the runner from 3rd breaking for home.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Goingdeep, if you TAKE a run from us, then maybe you do pick up some momentum, but if we GIVE the run to you - and get the out you essentially conceded to us - then we're 1 pitch away from getting out with a win. As a coach, you should use that gift run to inspire your team, but with you guys not having any baserunners, we aren't worried about a thing.

Conflicted, the discussion began because the coach in 29dad's case had instructed the catcher not to make any attempt on the stealing runner in that situation. You're saying that there is a huge downside to not getting that out at 2B, but what about the downside of demonstrating that you don't have the confidence in your team to make a play in an elimination game? In a 2-run game, we've got to play to win. If you choose to coach not to lose as opposed to coaching to win, my team is going to beat you more often than not.

Sports are a microcosm of life. The advantage almost always goes to the more aggressive team. But as I always say, this is just my coaching philosophy. You've got to coach based on your own philosophy and personnel. If I've got a team at Nationals, though, we're there to win, not to play it safe.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Goingdeep, if you TAKE a run from us, then maybe you do pick up some momentum, but if we GIVE the run to you - and get the out you essentially conceded to us - then we're 1 pitch away from getting out with a win. As a coach, you should use that gift run to inspire your team, but with you guys not having any baserunners, we aren't worried about a thing.

I always enjoy other coaches strategies. And there is nothing wrong with your logic. Heck, I've used yours many times just might go different in this set up.

Ok, the OP said it was a big slower girl running. So I'm automatically going to know if he leaves her there and she tries to steal he is doing it to "poke" me into the throw down. He wants to score the leading runner ( and take his chance on the out / maybe even have the big girl do a hard slide trying to knock the ball loose ).

But if you know me and my personality I'm going to be an a$$ and take away your plan. ( in a friendly way ) I want confusion in their minds and on the field. I want them to have the quick rush of "3rd's going to score" then the hangover of "what just happened". The unexpected.

That's why the cut off to SS, looks like a throw down but she's coming after the lead runner. Then we got 2 outs and your going to need 2 more runs to tie ( and 2 runs is a long way off mentally from 1 run ), championship game on the line, pressure on that next batter will be tough.

I think we both can agree whichever way you run this out, you win your'e a hero..........you lose your'e an idiot.

 

[chinamigarden]

Great scholarships in cheerleading though.

really? How much?