Two different things. The hands loading back and scap loading happens during the shift/before heel drop. The moving forward of the rotational axis Epstein was talking about defining linear hitting was after heel drop-an action commonly referred to as hip slide. No doubt you understand these points. I'm merely pointing out definitions here to contribute to clarity of the conversation. Thanks for the heads up on the before and afters still being there. I'll go look again.
Toe Touch-Heel Plant Sequence
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One thing u have to remember when looking at the Epstein clips is these students come to a clinic which is 8 hours long over 3 days. The reason that the bat is put on the shoulder is for a couple of reasons, one it takes away from there personal style, 2 it keeps there hands from dropping and 3 they don't have to worry about where there hands are going they are able to concentrate on retraining the muscle memories. This is the quickest way to teach the proper mechanic's in 8 hrs. This is where most people have a problem with the Epstein system, they think this is the way they will swing the rest of there life's. This is just the beginning or the trip, once the student has retrained the muscle memories then the personal style can be added in along with a stride. Jake Epstein has started to incorporate a stride into his lessons. I have always give to the student a choice to stride or not to stride when the muscle memory was retrained and the same goes for the hands. They can loosen there hands to whatever feels good to them as long as they do everything that they have learned.
I have zero problem with the bat on the deltoid. I like that part.
Did find the clips on his website. Baseball Looking at Ogata's after clip-this is what I expect to see in a lot of kids who work the drills hard.
Again, if the choice is swing like most fp youth hitters or Epstein, I'd pick Epstein every time. Depending on your level of commitment and analytical nature, it might be my first recommendation.
Did find the clips on his website. Baseball Looking at Ogata's after clip-this is what I expect to see in a lot of kids who work the drills hard.
Again, if the choice is swing like most fp youth hitters or Epstein, I'd pick Epstein every time. Depending on your level of commitment and analytical nature, it might be my first recommendation.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Wellphyt, Understand what you're saying, except re 'lateral separation' quoted below. Assuming you're refering to separation as the difference in distance the front and back foot are off a line running from home plate-mound-2B. Do you mean starting slightly off square and ending the same way (e.g., starting open, ending open) or changing pre- to post-stride (start square, end open)? Can you clarify?
Thanks - Greenmonsters
Thanks - Greenmonsters
Wellphyt, Understand what you're saying, except re 'lateral separation' quoted below. Assuming you're refering to separation as the difference in distance the front and back foot are off a line running from home plate-mound-2B. Do you mean starting slightly off square and ending the same way (e.g., starting open, ending open) or changing pre- to post-stride (start square, end open)? Can you clarify?
Thanks - Greenmonsters
Yes, I mean starting slightly off square from the plate, and ending the same way. This can be varified by slow motion video of MLB hitters and FP hitters. I'm sure there are some exceptions, as there always are, so you'll need to decide for yourself if it makes sense. I have recorded many FP swings on my DVR and played them back frame by frame, and virtually every swing showed the hitter with their feet laterally offset. Even MLB hitters like Chipper Jones, who starts open, doesn't close all the way during his load and stride.
On a related subject, Epstein has written a great piece on the benefit of opening up even more with two strikes to create a shorter, inside out swing. I've tried it off of a tee and IMO he is absolutely correct as far as the swing being shorter when you open up.
The key is that the back foot must move closer to the plate to compensate. Four inches isn't very much so it is easy to get total plate coverage. My daughter's back foot is usually right on the inside chalk line.
As always, don't take my word for it. Instead, spend time studying slow motion video clips of the better hitters and make up your own mind.
- Oct 30, 2009
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Starting using Epstein's method with DD about 7 years ago. She is a senior DII player having also played against the Georgia's and Louisville's plus many other D1 programs. Had no holes as you mentioned. Hits very well against all levels of competition. #7 in nation freshman year in doubles. Has a high batting career batting avg. and slugging pct and strikes out very little. Epstein's method works keeping in mind that no system is perfect and the elite player must work hard everyday to stay on top no matter what system is being used. Good luck to all.
I just wanted to say that I agree that most hitters are somewhat off-set.
Even if the hitter doesn't have a noticable open stance, the "hips" are what hitters refer to as starting slightly open.
I have many clips from directly behind and this is a very common thing to see.
The hips and front knee are off-set, for example compared to the back leg/knee they are slightly more open. And also compared to the shoulders, uppertorso.
Way back when, when I first started playing with the no-stride, and at the time Nomar was the poster boy. I played with the off-set he used, which was a slight aggeration of starting open without striding. I found it very helpful in using the entire body, getting the torso more involved as well as the hips. And while I can say it can help make hip rotation easier, I think the more involvement from the torso is what really happens. Although since the swing doesn't work well using parts and pieces, it's really about using the entire body better.
Even if the hitter doesn't have a noticable open stance, the "hips" are what hitters refer to as starting slightly open.
I have many clips from directly behind and this is a very common thing to see.
The hips and front knee are off-set, for example compared to the back leg/knee they are slightly more open. And also compared to the shoulders, uppertorso.
Way back when, when I first started playing with the no-stride, and at the time Nomar was the poster boy. I played with the off-set he used, which was a slight aggeration of starting open without striding. I found it very helpful in using the entire body, getting the torso more involved as well as the hips. And while I can say it can help make hip rotation easier, I think the more involvement from the torso is what really happens. Although since the swing doesn't work well using parts and pieces, it's really about using the entire body better.
I'm not sure about everyones comments.
I just wanted to say that planting before the backside starts to unload will always cause issues. And what Mark has talked about as hip slide.
The front heel trigger can only be successful if this is understund. For example, as a reminder to not muscling up the backside to much or force the hips. And this what Epstein's front heel trigger is really about, it's not to take away from the backside it's a cue for several other factors and principles. As in his first video where he mentions this several times when instructing the hips/back knee to start "while dropping the front heel".
What you are more likely seeing is what Mark talked about hip slide, or what is more likely happening restrictions in the swing/movement (not really very skilled hitters, yet).
I just wanted to say that planting before the backside starts to unload will always cause issues. And what Mark has talked about as hip slide.
The front heel trigger can only be successful if this is understund. For example, as a reminder to not muscling up the backside to much or force the hips. And this what Epstein's front heel trigger is really about, it's not to take away from the backside it's a cue for several other factors and principles. As in his first video where he mentions this several times when instructing the hips/back knee to start "while dropping the front heel".
What you are more likely seeing is what Mark talked about hip slide, or what is more likely happening restrictions in the swing/movement (not really very skilled hitters, yet).
Dosn't it seem in the Bustos video that she is super close to heel plant if not actually at heel plant before she starts the backside. What do others see. This ties into the thread about weight transfer as well.
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