The Rise is the Key

[riseball]

You are totally wrong. My DD never threw a rise...so, how did she end up "good"? As far as I can tell, Monica Abbott doesn't even try to throw a rise.

The turning point for a pitcher is when she breaks free of her father and her coaches. She decides to compete and takes ownership of learning to pitch...which often puts her Daddy out of a job. At that point, the pitcher starts trying to optimize her delivery and get every MPH possible out of her body. She starts focusing on hints and cues that work *for her*.

As "The Snake" (the guy who coached three Olympic athletes), "I don't teach kids to pitch. Good pitchers teach themselves how to pitch. I can show them grips and explain how the ball is supposed to spin, and show them videos of themselves and show them the problems. I can help. But it is the kid who does the teaching."

So I have to ask: How old was your DD when you became "unemployed"?

 

[Perfect Circle]

12....is When I started seeing it (unemployment) in the video.... but for a couple years before that, she quit complying , and making her arguments with K's and win's...

 

[WillyT812]

i think the "jump' is an optical illusion. I thought it before when I saw it mentioned on this forum some time back. I don't actually thing a ball jumps any more than I think it rises. Doesn't sink as much might be a good name for a rise but it's too long.

Funny thing about some of these comments about being totally wrong is how someone takes their own experience and assumes it applies to everyone. There are a lot of ways a girl gets to pitching with IR, some through a coach that knows how to teach it, some through natural ability, some through learning how to throw a rise ball and overcoming years of elbow snap coaching.

Sluggers, a girl with drive is as important as a girl with talent. One without the other is just time wasted for a father, a PC, a coach. Seen too many great arms, boys and girls, without the drive to be more than just a great arm. I'm getting too old, ain't got time to convince them to be more.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

Best thing I ever did as a bucket dad was realize when DD was 12 that I needed to swallow my pride and get the hell out of the way...

 

[corlay]

i think the "jump' is an optical illusion.

Here's my theory:
a) To track a high-velocity pitch and time a swing, the batter must project the anticipated ball-path
b) When ball doesn't follow that anticipated path, the brain still stubbornly projects on the anticipated path, just for a moment
c) then the data coming from the eyes reading the actual path overrides and says: "No the ball is going HERE, not THERE"
d) so the brain re-processes this deviation of the actual path vs the anticipated path, and the ball appears to "jump" or "dart"

I experience this now, as my 11U DD is learning the curve.
She doesn't get it to break every time, but about 50% do. (and that percentage is steadily increasing)
And the ones that do, appear to take a sharp turn vs a gradual bend.
I KNOW that the sharp turn defies science and physics, but my stubborn (or lazy?) brain perceives it as such
because I've been catching her for a long time, and am used to a certain ball-path.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Here's my theory:
a) To track a high-velocity pitch and time a swing, the batter must project the anticipated ball-path
b) When ball doesn't follow that anticipated path, the brain still stubbornly projects on the anticipated path, just for a moment
c) then the data coming from the eyes reading the actual path overrides and says: "No the ball is going HERE, not THERE"
d) so the brain re-processes this deviation of the actual path vs the anticipated path, and the ball appears to "jump" or "dart"

I experience this now, as my 11U DD is learning the curve.
She doesn't get it to break every time, but about 50% do. (and that percentage is steadily increasing)
And the ones that do, appear to take a sharp turn vs a gradual bend.
I KNOW that the sharp turn defies science and physics, but my stubborn (or lazy?) brain perceives it as such
because I've been catching her for a long time, and am used to a certain ball-path.

Like to see a clip... cut out the non-Sharp turn ones... here's one of mine 12yr old...

 

[Perfect Circle]

Best thing I ever did as a bucket dad was realize when DD was 12 that I needed to swallow my pride and get the hell out of the way...

Yep... after subscribing to the MHP = Mark Hanson Principle on here.... I seen immediately that a kid I knew was way more capable of teaching DD how to pitch... He never even played baseball ect.... but he could edit video & music... he knew photoshop & just about most all of Adobe software @ 14yr old..

 

[JAD]

A rise that jumps??? Seeing that would be a first time experience for virtually everyone here. If you get a chance, please capture this jumping riseball on video so that we may all share in the laughter. For whatever reason, others have experienced this magic jumping action to "shut off" when a camera is "turned on".

When a ball is thrown to you your brain does a calculation based on the speed, trajectory and spin of the ball in order to position your glove to catch it. A riseball may not actually rise, but it flattens out and does not drop as much as your brain tells you it should. This is why you see a lot of catchers (and bucket dads) "flinch" at the last second when catching a good riseball and why a lot of batters swing under the pitch. It is easier to call it a "riseball" vs. "a pitch that flattens out", but there is always someone who wants to argue semantics. I wish Bud Light would do a "Real Men of Genius" for those posters....

 

[Tatonka]

Not related to the current riseball discussion at all as my DD is just starting work on it but that Man of Genius clip made my day!!

 

[Ken B]

My theory is that the rise is where they convert to proper IR mechanics.

I've heard some say that their fastest pitches are rise and/or curve. Like you, I've speculated that these pitches promote whip better than the HE fastballs most are taught--especially if they aren't tripped up with too much emphasis on spinning with finger twist.