The Rise is the Key

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May 26, 2013
372
18
Ramstein Germany
Theory time for the long term contributors of this forum.

I've listened/watched to plenty of pitching clinics from Cat, Finch, etc. None advocate IR mechanics. They teach how they were taught giving no thoughts to how they actually pitch. They are pitchers, not instructors. But how did they end up with correct mechanics if they were taught improper mechanics to begin with? Most girls who have the aptitude and attitude to pitch (and providing they stick with it long enough) eventually get around to learning the rise. My theory is that the rise is where they convert to proper IR mechanics. They have no choice but to whip (palm up), slice with their pinky at the hip and get long with their arm at 6 o'clock with a hard snap. Subconsciously this more efficient and powerful motion will bleed over into all the other pitches.

My number one is now starting her third year, time to learn the rise. Drive mechanics are pretty good, whip is good but not what it can be. We started two-weeks ago working the rise, focusing on spin and getting under the ball at snap. You can really see the difference in her whip, a good difference. She's longer at the bottom of her circle and not muscling near as much with her arm. The snap is much more violent. We even work on the rise during long toss drills. I've seen mention on this forum of girls throwing a rise that jumps, I didn't believe it, I do now. I laughed the first few times I saw it. She's a long ways off from pitching with the rise in a game but the benefits of learning the rise on her drop ball are obvious...much better arm whip, much better spin. She hinges back on the rise and forward on the drop. Some may say don't teach the rise until their whip is near perfect on the drop/FB and change.

Here's the point: you've got a girl that can IR but it's not what it can be, not enough spin, not enough speed, not enough control. Teach and focus on the rise, they'll have no choice but to use a more efficient and powerful motion. I think it was the turning point for all the pitchers we use as reference points on this forum.
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
Sorry Willy but I do not buy your premise that learning the riseball was the turning point for pitchers to start using internal rotation mechanics. For example, there is a graph somewhere showing how fast Jennie Finch pitched when she was 8u and 10u and she was throwing in the high 40's and low 50's. No way in heck she was throwing that hard using hello elbow mechanics as a 8,9, and 10 year old kid. And I really doubt she was learning a riseball when she was 8 & 9 years old.

What I think is really going on is that the elite pitchers you see today were probably very dominant as kids (using IR) and continued having success as they played travel ball, high school ball, and college. They also grew a lot and there is no coincidence that Jennie, Cat, and Abbott, are all 6 feet or taller.
 
May 26, 2013
372
18
Ramstein Germany
They could have used IR, no doubt, but the refinement comes through the rise. Not everyone is the same either, for some it could have very well started with the rise. You don't even have to throw a good rise to feel or see the effect it has on the whip. You can't muscle a rise, it will only come from a loose and violent whip/snap. My hypothesis is the rise is where muscling ends and the "wet noodle" begins.
 

obbay

Banned
Aug 21, 2008
2,199
0
Boston, MA
there is a graph somewhere showing how fast Jennie Finch pitched when she was 8u and 10u and she was throwing in the high 40's and low 50's.
Yeah, she was a phenom but I don't know that I buy that graph. (Radar Gun Grandpa?) She is an anomaly and what worked for her isn't necessarily the path that will work for everyone.
Along the same lines, I've never compared Lauren Chamberlain and Crystl Bustos, but do they teach hitting the same way?

I think the point about the Riseball Mechanics leading to bigger and better pitching may not be valid for everyone, but I think it is a valid point and probably does apply to many - including former DI players who currently teach HE Mechanics (There are several around where i live)
 
Last edited:
Jun 17, 2009
15,036
0
Portland, OR
I've seen mention on this forum of girls throwing a rise that jumps, I didn't believe it, I do now. I laughed the first few times I saw it. She's a long ways off from pitching with the rise in a game but the benefits of learning the rise on her drop ball are obvious...much better arm whip, much better spin. She hinges back on the rise and forward on the drop. Some may say don't teach the rise until their whip is near perfect on the drop/FB and change.

A rise that jumps??? Seeing that would be a first time experience for virtually everyone here. If you get a chance, please capture this jumping riseball on video so that we may all share in the laughter. For whatever reason, others have experienced this magic jumping action to "shut off" when a camera is "turned on".
 
Jan 4, 2012
3,848
38
OH-IO
Rise.gif
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,134
113
Dallas, Texas
Here's the point: you've got a girl that can IR but it's not what it can be, not enough spin, not enough speed, not enough control. Teach and focus on the rise, they'll have no choice but to use a more efficient and powerful motion. I think it was the turning point for all the pitchers we use as reference points on this forum.

You are totally wrong. My DD never threw a rise...so, how did she end up "good"? As far as I can tell, Monica Abbott doesn't even try to throw a rise.

The turning point for a pitcher is when she breaks free of her father and her coaches. She decides to compete and takes ownership of learning to pitch...which often puts her Daddy out of a job. At that point, the pitcher starts trying to optimize her delivery and get every MPH possible out of her body. She starts focusing on hints and cues that work *for her*.

As "The Snake" (the guy who coached three Olympic athletes), "I don't teach kids to pitch. Good pitchers teach themselves how to pitch. I can show them grips and explain how the ball is supposed to spin, and show them videos of themselves and show them the problems. I can help. But it is the kid who does the teaching."
 
Last edited:
Jan 4, 2012
3,848
38
OH-IO
You are totally wrong. My DD never threw a rise...so, how did she end up "good"? As far as I can tell, Monica Abbott doesn't even try to throw a rise.

The turning point for a pitcher is when she breaks free of her father and her coaches. She decides to compete and takes ownership of learning to pitch...which often puts her Daddy out of a job. At that point, the pitcher starts trying to optimize her delivery and get every MPH possible out of her body. She starts focusing on hints and cues that work *for her*.

As "The Snake" (the guy who coached three Olympic athletes), "I don't teach kids to pitch. Good pitchers teach themselves how to pitch. I can show them grips and explain how the ball is supposed to spin, and show them videos of themselves and show them the problems. I can help. But it is the kid who does the teaching."

Yep.... started out working on the "show them videos" then evolved to .gifs that are easily sent to their phone.... :cool:

Without getting into another conversation with the guy from U of I.... still not getting how she puts a 12/6 on all 4 pitches that break all 4 different ways.... trying to get her to teach me that so I don't get unemployed... :cool:
 

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