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[Cannonball]

I am not going to over complicate things, why would I? There are many videos on youtube that show a rise ball.. which rises. Does it take some magically leap in the air that jumps to a higher plane? No. But it does come at you on an upward plane. As displayed in the video I posted above.. they go into physics as well.. but a simple picture tells the story.. I can understand how a batters perception can make it rise more than it actually does though.

CannonB..


For fastpitch I believe the hitter needs to think level trajectory and adjust.. for baseball downward trajectory and adjust.

When I coach my hitters, I coach the swing per mechanics and don't discuss a "standard" trajectory. Instead, I use tees set up at various heights per most of the drills. IOWs, my hitters don't have a standard height so they don't take a standard swing. If their swing is adjustable, when I go to front toss, they can adjust to any pitch. I don't teach swing down or swing up. I teach resistance on the back side. Control the core. I teach the basic tenants of PCR(W) as Nyman intended to be or at least my impression of how he meant to have his ideas constructed to view the swing. (As a way of measurement and not a hitting philosophy.)

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

At what point does it level off and flatten out... does it rise at the same angle all the way to the plate.. of course not.. Does it rise though.. yes it does. Up to the point of contact the ball is still rising, the yellow dots actually illustrate this.. it's easy to see.

Sounds like you may be about to agree that a riseball, thrown for a 'called strike', will not be 'rising' as it crosses the plate.

 

[julray]

LOL.. I was waiting for somebody to post the submariner. What % of MLB pitchers pitch this way? How many successful NCAA Fastpitch pitchers have a good riseball?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

When I think about swinging 'on plane', I don't even consider matching every different pitch type. To me, 'on plane' is best represented by the Ted Williams picture posted several times. In other words, a slightly upward swing plane. The actual trajectory of a Justin Verlander fastball is dramatically different from a Clayton Kershaw curveball. I wouldn't want a hitter to adjust their swing plane by that much.

The barrel head starts well above where impact will be. During much of the effort level within the swing the barrel, in a real sense, is swung 'down'.

 

[julray]

Sounds like you may be about to agree that a riseball, thrown for a 'called strike', will not be 'rising' as it crosses the plate.

You are getting confused here... a riseball is a ball that rises. Rise balls rise at different angles depending on the pitchers delivery and release point. A good pitcher can throw a rise ball for a strike that does not rise or drop.. starts just above knees and remains on plane.. why can they do this? Because of the back spin applied. A good pitcher can also throw a rise ball that rises slightly for a strike, they can also throw it for a strike out pitch out of the zone. Will a rise thrown for a strike have less rise than one thrown head high.. of course, that's just dumb. What's to disagree with here? No different than curve ball thrown for a strike vs one thrown in the dirt..

 

[julray]

When I think about swinging 'on plane', I don't even consider matching every different pitch type. To me, 'on plane' is best represented by the Ted Williams picture posted several times. In other words, a slightly upward swing plane. The actual trajectory of a Justin Verlander fastball is dramatically different from a Clayton Kershaw curveball. I wouldn't want a hitter to adjust their swing plane by that much.

I agree absolutely!! That's what I have been saying. On plane is slightly upward for baseball, the hitter can adjust to most MLB pitches by swinging slightly upward..

 

[julray]

When I coach my hitters, I coach the swing per mechanics and don't discuss a "standard" trajectory. Instead, I use tees set up at various heights per most of the drills. IOWs, my hitters don't have a standard height so they don't take a standard swing. If their swing is adjustable, when I go to front toss, they can adjust to any pitch. I don't teach swing down or swing up. I teach resistance on the back side. Control the core. I teach the basic tenants of PCR(W) as Nyman intended to be or at least my impression of how he meant to have his ideas constructed to view the swing. (As a way of measurement and not a hitting philosophy.)

But you do teach them how to hit a riseball which you previously mentioned. Hands flat swing fast.. I believe it was. Would you ask a baseball player to swing this way?

 

[julray]

The barrel head starts well above where impact will be. During much of the effort level within the swing the barrel, in a real sense, is swung 'down'.

Of course the barrel starts above the ball.. and initially it is swung down.. does it need to be leveled off to successfully (consistently) get behind a riseball type pitch in the strike zone.. does it need to be swung on a slight upward plane to successfully get behind a pitch hurled by a baseball pitcher?

 

[julray]

Slightly upward, not getting behind the ball. Notice the shoulder plane. Her timing wasn't perfect, so she didn't intersect the ball. If her swing path was more level, she would of been behind the ball better and possibly got a piece of it.

 

[julray]

Level shoulders, level swing.. I didn't think it was leaving the park though. She didn't even have great timing on this pitch, much better job of getting behind the ball