Teaching the high level pattern

[Cannonball]

The Hansen principle doesn’t mean crap, Anyone can find a “swing” and claim it’s correct or what they teach and how hitting works. You have to know what your looking at.

And yet so many of us who have had success have used the Hanson Principle. Really? It isn't "a swing." The Hanson Principle founder, Mark Hanson, even stated that there were limits to his philosophy because not all people are capable of breaking down a swing. In fact, he once mentioned that not one video suit his principle and would require a study of "the bests. swings."

Here is something I posted a very long time ago on another website:

"The Hanson Principle has been a very good tool for coaches and dads to use for some time. It is the difference between seeing an event be it hitting or pitching in real time and thinking that you know what happened versus filming it and then having the ability to compare what you filmed with what the best who play the game looks like. Yes, there are still limitations. One of my constant arguments is that we can't "feel" what others feel. Genetics has a big role in all of this. The reality is that while so many philosophies claim to use the Hanson Principle, they still different in belief systems. As Nyman once said, "We are only capable of seeing what we are capable of seeing." Some have gone further and tried to break down that film and subsequent advice to players/dads via science. This is a type of "under the hood" evaluation. We all know that there are some who have had a mea culpa moment where they have used video (Hanson Principle) to promote one guru/philosophy, changed to another philosophy, and then, even changed again but still use the same video to argue for and then against these same philosophies."

 

[Cannonball]

The victim act is tired. I’ve asked Mike some questions; he’s answered some and ignored some. I didn’t start the night shift big chest act Mike did. Remember that? I just reminded him that he’s lying and his passive aggressive crap doesn’t play w me. It just so happens I backed him into a ‘corner’ he couldn’t get out of. See what I did there?

Call me hall monitor or hitting police or truth seeker. I don’t care. We’re all grown here. I expect that to drive convos. Not a brand. Not what someone teaches/wants. It’s about the video/content. AJs swing has changed. Mike admitted that.

The problem is Mike couldn’t come up w plausible answers to AJs changes as well as other unanswered questions and that pissed him off. There wasn’t another drill or prop to hide behind. Bc HLP doesn’t teach what AJ does now. It’s that simple.

There are no hard feelings here. I don’t take this personal. Guys take stuff personal when they’re losing. Don’t forget that !!

This is a fair response. As you critique what Mike teaches, where is the video of what you teach? I understand the criticism and have been criticized often in the past for what I think/coach and especially of my dd. It would have been beneficial to all if those critics then posted video of what their hitters did better or how their "philosophy" was better. If you have posted videos in the past, please accept my apologies and point me to them.

As an FYI for all, I fully admit that my dd never matched what all of you are seeking. None of you would have called her swing a HLP. She did ok.

 

[_MIA_]

This is a fair response. As you critique what Mike teaches, where is the video of what you teach? I understand the criticism and have been criticized often in the past for what I think/coach and especially of my dd. It would have been beneficial to all if those critics then posted video of what their hitters did better or how their "philosophy" was better. If you have posted videos in the past, please accept my apologies and point me to them.

As an FYI for all, I fully admit that my dd never matched what all of you are seeking. None of you would have called her swing a HLP. She did ok.

I hate to get in between this lover’s quarrel we have going on here..(ok that is a lie..I love arguments ) but I think both Mike and WW (he has posted his DD) ( and you for that matter) have produced hitters who have succeeded enough to be able to play in college. That should be respected and learned from and part of learning includes asking questions (respectfully).

Unless some instructor has the ability to change genetics and circumstance expecting a “Pro Pattern”, “High Level Pattern” or whatever pattern to produce

a) a swing which closely resembles the models we look at and

b) pro level output

is fool’s gold.

Carry on

 

[Cannonball]

I hate to get in between this lover’s quarrel we have going on here..(ok that is a lie..I love arguments ) but I think both Mike and WW (he has posted his DD) ( you for that matter) have produced hitters who have succeeded enough to ge able to play in college.

Unless some instructor has the ability to change genetics and circumstance expecting a “Pro Pattern”, “High Level Paytern” or whatever pattern to produce a) a swing which closely resembles the models we look at and

b) pro level output

is fools gold.

No quarrel here with me other than you have now posted that my dd's inability to be great was due to her father's genetics. Then again:

 

[_MIA_]

No quarrel here with me other than you have now posted that my dd's inability to be great was due to her father's genetics. Then again:

Your DD did fine if I remember correctly. Her mother wouldn’t happen to be Babe Didrikson’s DD would she..

 

[Cannonball]

Your DD did fine if I remember correctly. Her mother wouldn’t happen to be Babe Didrikson’s DD would she..

No, but she was an outstanding athlete. Her and her brother were the top Roller Skating "Pairs" in the United States back in the early to mid 70s. I, on the other hand, was a hard worker who did well athletically but not an athlete.

I'll go ahead and get back out of this thread. I do better when I just read stuff.

 

[Work=wins]

This is a fair response. As you critique what Mike teaches, where is the video of what you teach? I understand the criticism and have been criticized often in the past for what I think/coach and especially of my dd. It would have been beneficial to all if those critics then posted video of what their hitters did better or how their "philosophy" was better. If you have posted videos in the past, please accept my apologies and point me to them.

As an FYI for all, I fully admit that my dd never matched what all of you are seeking. None of you would have called her swing a HLP. She did ok.

I teach sequence. Kinetic chain. There aren’t really a set of drills. I try to give the player what they need. I teach getting into the back leg. The knee mostly. I teach walking away from the hands. I teach separation through sequential movement. I teach leverage through two legs but w a majority of pressure still back. Which comes at launch. I teach core contraction. I teach knob down to. I teach pivoting the swing through the front shoulder/arm/hand as well as throw the head w the top hand. I teach timing through situations/counts.

For me it’s about matching the power producers that the HOF pattern has. Will some use more force in other vectors than others? Sure. That’s why hitters rarely have the same look.

Thanks for your unbiased opinion CB.

 

[_MIA_]

No, but she was an outstanding athlete. Her and her brother were the top Roller Skating "Pairs" in the United States back in the early to mid 70s. I, on the other hand, was a hard worker who did well athletically but not an athlete.

I'll go ahead and get back out of this thread. I do better when I just read stuff.

I was just giving you a tough time... (and complementing your DD's career at the same time..) I am sure you were a better than average athlete.

 

[Cannonball]

I was just giving you a tough time... (and complementing your DD's career at the same time..) I am sure you were a better than average athlete.

pattar, it didn't have anything to do with our exchange. I need to be more of a reader. I can't add more than I have from the past and, to be honest, some here have to be thinking that my act is getting old. I tend to mess up threads in my old age. We are good to go and I appreciate following you and your children's journey.

 

[FP26]

I asked tough questions after he changed the intent. It’s clear if you go back and read. Those ‘attacks’ were questions. I’ve debated many others here and there. Same thing. Now it’s called ‘tough guy’? Sorry I did no such thing. I didnt error on that side. I’m clear w what I’m trying to accomplish.

Maybe you should have paid more attention beforehand. I was not the aggressor. Mike said he was ‘passionate’. Passionate about what? That’s how he excused his behavior. So I asked what he was so passionate about. Trying to get to the root so I could know what I’m dealing with. Don’t understand why that’s so bad. His guru is passionate about being right. It’s clear. I thought Mike had perhaps followed suit. If so I would have laughed that off and left it alone. No point in debating a ‘blind’ truth seeker.

I have driven by this thread a few times because I respect the work @Mike-Coach Q has done with his students such as Haley and @Eric F daughter. I have not dug in deeper because I don't have much interest in HLP for reasons I have explained before. Likewise I don't have much interest in the HOF pattern as you call it. I have asked questions in the past, and they have gone unanswered. At first I figured there were reasons that Tom would not answer my questions. I'm to the point now that I don't even care what his answers are any more. It's a dead subject to me. As stated before, I wish you and your daughter all the best.