Swing feedback

[FiveFrameSwing]

Very nice Five. Others hear "hands to the ball" and they literally think you have to hit the ball with the knob. "hands to the ball" means direction. It charts a course, mapping where the handle has to get to, to release the loaded barrel, where the sweet spot of the barrel will meet the sweet spot of the ball.

For a fb on the inner half - the first move should be knob toward pitcher. There is no time to drop the barrel and get on plane if that is the first move...

For off-speed on the inside, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

For fb's and off-speed on the outer half, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

Hopefully "hands to the ball" now makes a bit more sense. And if it does, I'll now confuse you by saying - this discussion isn't about hand-path, it's about direction. If we were in a parked car - pulling away from the curb - the part we are discussing is the turning of the wheel, not the applying of the accelerator. They do go together, but ya gotta know where your going as you hit the gas.

Good stuff right there Howe.

When I see someone dropping the barrel to get on plane first, I think in terms of not understanding the involvement of hand usage.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

How about "uptick" and "turn the barrel to the ball" have validity if used and explained correctly? How about maybe there is not any difference in what you are saying and where Matt Pierce ultimately goes with his progressions? How about showing the Kirby demo in their backyard? You used to gush about it. Is it not yours and thus not cool anymore? Or is it the fact that particular video and some of Matt's may be essentially indistinguishable and thus rain on your forum dominating parade?

There are tons of sayings and demo's that have validity - if used and explained correctly - to use your teensie weensie caveat. All I was trying to do was was show a hitting instructor that by my definition has had success, actually posts his hitters and the progressions they work on - some of which parents/kids may be able to relate to and improve from. You could literally run through all of the videos/then get up and swing to duplicate in less than two hours. If you think they suck, don't use them on your kid. Believe it or not, some people have hard time relating to "just do what Miggy does" for every swing flaw. That's all I'm saying

The irony, is I DON'T disagree with what you are saying - if you have "had it explained correctly". In fact, it may make more sense to some aspiring hitters than other cues, or it may not. As you just elaborated, the how, when and where do matter to the cue of "just take your hands to the ball". Shocking. Could that cue get overbaked - not a chance - lol. Anyway, I will shut up now since - "I am lost". Have a good weekend.


PS - @ FFS - you are so full of it. Seriously - how many billions of posts have you made about "just turn the "friggin" barrel honey". Chappy steps in - now, you are his new BFF(again) and "hands to the balling yo arse off".

p.s.

BH, thought I cleared things up nicely for those that went too far with "turn the barrel" ... see posts on "Around" / "Along".

 

[Howe]

The idea of uptick or pinwheel can be a shock to the system that helps them reset their mind about what a swing actually *is* and how it *works*.

That would be great Rich, if it were true - but it's not. I take it that you are under the belief that the barrel gets unloaded at go?

 

[RichK]

That would be great Rich, if it were true - but it's not. I take it that you are under the belief that the barrel gets unloaded at go?

I'm not sure what "unloaded" means 100% in this context -- but it seems a loaded term lol

On the spectrum of launch/direct vs. direct/launch I would fall more toward the launch/direct side of things, yes.

When I see good hitters do aggressive takes, you see the barrel click back as they hold. That feels to me like an early aggressive launch aborted. I believe they also set themselves during that *instant* of decision for direction too.

As I instruct (and hit myself) against significant speed, I believe working the top hand aggressively (and early) is as necessary as starting the entire running start process slow and early...

 

[Howe]

I'm not sure what "unloaded" means 100% in this context -- but it seems a loaded term lol

On the spectrum of launch/direct vs. direct/launch I would fall more toward the launch/direct side of things, yes.

When I see good hitters do aggressive takes, you see the barrel click back as they hold. That feels to me like an early aggressive launch aborted. I believe they also set themselves during that *instant* of decision for direction too.

As I instruct (and hit myself) against significant speed, I believe working the top hand aggressively (and early) is as necessary as starting the entire running start process slow and early...

So then, at which point in "launch and spend" is the barrel really spent? Remember now, the tenants you follow state that the barrel is launched, spent and on autopilot at GO. Can you define the point of no return?

 

[RichK]

So then, at which point in "launch and spend" is the barrel really spent? Remember now, the tenants you follow state that the barrel is launched, spent and on autopilot at GO. Can you define the point of no return?

I never used the terms "spent" or "autopilot" -- that's not *my* argument. I don't have *tenants* -- or tenets either

And it seems to me if a swing can be completed OR stopped after it is launched (the aborted swings I mentioned) I'm not really sure what "spent" means anyway.

All I've said -- if you see my words -- is that an early handle torque is a good thing, especially as dealing with speed becomes a challenge. I just don't see either/or here, it's all happening too quickly in real life vs. words on a page. In another context, some use the phrase shift AND swing (versus shift THEN swing)....seems just as useful to say launch AND direct, to some extent.

I look for tools that help my hitters having problems. For hitters who can't quite get the barrel *there* on time, talking about and playing around with uptick or handle torque or top hand working under can help them get to square.

 

[Howe]

I never used the terms "spent" or "autopilot" -- that's not *my* argument. I don't have *tenants* -- or tenets either

And it seems to me if a swing can be completed OR stopped after it is launched (the aborted swings I mentioned) I'm not really sure what "spent" means anyway.

All I've said -- if you see my words -- is that an early handle torque is a good thing, especially as dealing with speed becomes a challenge. I just don't see either/or here, it's all happening too quickly in real life vs. words on a page. In another context, some use the phrase shift AND swing (versus shift THEN swing)....seems just as useful to say launch AND direct, to some extent.

I look for tools that help my hitters having problems. For hitters who can't quite get the barrel *there* on time, talking about and playing around with uptick or handle torque or top hand working under can help them get to square.

Cool, and thank you for the correction on my grammar, I'm slow.

Yes I've seen your words and I'm familiar with your framework. You have to be careful if you're going to deny those certain "tenets". See? I'm getting there.

I'm glad you mention real life. In your estimation, does Miggy:

• Read the speed/spin/location with direction in mind?
• Read the speed/spin/location with torquing the handle in mind?

In real life, good hitters talk about their hands but never talk about torquing the handle when things are going well. They talk about trusting their hands... Wonder what they mean?

 

[grandpa]

Cool, and thank you for the correction on my grammar, I'm slow.

Yes I've seen your words and I'm familiar with your framework. You have to be careful if you're going to deny those certain "tenets". See? I'm getting there.

I'm glad you mention real life. In your estimation, does Miggy:

• Read the speed/spin/location with direction in mind?
• Read the speed/spin/location with torquing the handle in mind?

In real life, good hitters talk about their hands but never talk about torquing the handle when things are going well. They talk about trusting their hands... Wonder what they mean?

Howe, just how far from the plate to hitters pick up spin? Nobody picks spin up upon release from the pitcher at the pro level. If the ball has late movement and you are pushing, you are in a tough spot. Adjustability is adjusting to late movement. If you take your hands to a spot that you read early, late movement will be very tough on the hitter.

 

[Howe]

Howe, just how far from the plate to hitters pick up spin? Nobody picks spin up upon release from the pitcher at the pro level. If the ball has late movement and you are pushing, you are in a tough spot. Adjustability is adjusting to late movement. If you take your hands to a spot that you read early, late movement will be very tough on the hitter.

Grandpa, is this your first post of 2015? Tell me more about Miggy's direction and hand-path above. Did he just torque the handle and it happened??? lol

In regards to spin and when/how it's thrown and realized - I suppose some hitters are better than others - as-are some pitchers...

Anyway, http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25129628/look-visualizing-how-different-pitches-look-to-the-hitter

 

[grandpa]

Grandpa, is this your first post of 2015? Tell me more about Miggy's direction and hand-path above. Did he just torque the handle and it happened??? lol

I actually have no idea about Miggy's intent (HAND PATH) on the above swing. I'm not a mind reader. Haven't had the chance to speak with him lately. LOL


As usual, no answer for the spin question. Good luck with your theory on directing hands to a location without reading spin. If you can pick up spin 25 feet away on a ball traveling over 90mph you truly are special Howe.