Swing feedback

[FiveFrameSwing]

I know, right? Without logic and good common sense, you would think the barrel magically get's to the ball all by itself. But we are not that dumb. In fact, we can see just how early the hand direction is called upon and leads the body to facilitate. HUMMM

No time to drop and drag when you focus on the right thing.

Your earlier post about turning the knob to the plate got me thinking.

When I performed a 'short-to' for an outside pitch, the knob was rotated to point towards the outside edge of the plate. When I performed a 'short-to' for an inside pitch, the knob was rotated to point towards the inside edge of the plate.

Tonight was working with a somewhat young player with the skills in the beginning stages of development.

Tried to explain the 'short-to' ... but the kid didn't have any synchronization with her back leg.

So I pulled out the frisbee ... and 'turned the wheel' (I believe you recall the drill) to synchronize a 'short-to' with the rear leg.

This time around it was 'turn the wheel for an inside pitch'. Then 'turn the wheel for an outside pitch'. Kept rotating back-and-forth ... each time pausing at the end of the 'short-to' and taking note of where the knob would be pointed towards if she was holding a barrel. The kid got it. It was a big break through for this kid. Prior she had never hit an inside pitch with authority ... she would end up being effectively jammed on any inside pitch ... but with this change she was able to get her hands through.

Anyone thinking that the 'short-to' isn't also about 'direction' needs a reality check IMO.

 

[Howe]

Your earlier post about turning the knob to the plate got me thinking.

When I performed a 'short-to' for an outside pitch, the knob was rotated to point towards the outside edge of the plate. When I performed a 'short-to' for an inside pitch, the knob was rotated to point towards the inside edge of the plate.

Tonight was working with a somewhat young player with the skills in the beginning stages of development.

Tried to explain the 'short-to' ... but the kid didn't have any synchronization with her back leg.

So I pulled out the frisbee ... and 'turned the wheel' (I believe you recall the drill) to synchronize a 'short-to' with the rear leg.

This time around it was 'turn the wheel for an inside pitch'. Then 'turn the wheel for an outside pitch'. Kept rotating back-and-forth ... each time pausing at the end of the 'short-to' and taking note of where the knob would be pointed towards if she was holding a barrel. The kid got it. It was a big break through for this kid. Prior she had never hit an inside pitch with authority ... she would end up being effectively jammed on any inside pitch ... but with this change she was able to get her hands through.

Anyone thinking that the 'short-to' isn't also about 'direction' needs a reality check IMO.

Very nice Five. Others hear "hands to the ball" and they literally think you have to hit the ball with the knob. "hands to the ball" means direction. It charts a course, mapping where the handle has to get to, to release the loaded barrel, where the sweet spot of the barrel will meet the sweet spot of the ball.

For a fb on the inner half - the first move should be knob toward pitcher. There is no time to drop the barrel and get on plane if that is the first move...

For off-speed on the inside, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

For fb's and off-speed on the outer half, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

Hopefully "hands to the ball" now makes a bit more sense. And if it does, I'll now confuse you by saying - this discussion isn't about hand-path, it's about direction. If we were in a parked car - pulling away from the curb - the part we are discussing is the turning of the wheel, not the applying of the accelerator. They do go together, but ya gotta know where your going as you hit the gas.

 

[FP26]

Very nice Five. Others hear "hands to the ball" and they literally think you have to hit the ball with the knob. "hands to the ball" means direction. It charts a course, mapping where the handle has to get to, to release the loaded barrel, where the sweet spot of the barrel will meet the sweet spot of the ball.

For a fb on the inner half - the first move should be knob toward pitcher. There is no time to drop the barrel and get on plane if that is the first move...

For off-speed on the inside, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

For fb's and off-speed on the outer half, the knob goes toward the plate (away from the hitters belly button).

Hopefully "hands to the ball" now makes a bit more sense. And if it does, I'll now confuse you by saying - this discussion isn't about hand-path, it's about direction. If we were in a parked car - pulling away from the curb - the part we are discussing is the turning of the wheel, not the applying of the accelerator. They do go together, but ya gotta know where your going as you hit the gas.

I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Direction is a key component in my understanding of the overall swing process. But I want to focus more on the phrase I have bolded above. Does the "release" you are referring to include ulnar deviation of the bottom wrist (and the subsequent other movements that the hand set must perform to allow this to happen)? And if so, do you consider this process (the release) to also be a timing component? For example, if a hitter is fooled by a pitch, does (s)he have the ability to alter the timing of this release mid-stream in order to improve his/her odds of squaring up? I will go on record as saying that I think experienced hitters are capable of making some fine adjustments such as this. I think this is a byproduct of educated hands. I know some others will say that the window is so short that the hitter doesn't have time to think about those things.

 

[Howe]

I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Direction is a key component in my understanding of the overall swing process. But I want to focus more on the phrase I have bolded above. Does the "release" you are referring to include ulnar deviation of the bottom wrist (and the subsequent other movements that the hand set must perform to allow this to happen)? And if so, do you consider this process (the release) to also be a timing component? For example, if a hitter is fooled by a pitch, does (s)he have the ability to alter the timing of this release mid-stream in order to improve his/her odds of squaring up? I will go on record as saying that I think experienced hitters are capable of making some fine adjustments such as this. I think this is a byproduct of educated hands. I know some others will say that the window is so short that the hitter doesn't have time to think about those things.

Yes and yes. Worth mentioning is top hand wrist extension - which is key in holding the loaded barrel without prematurely radial deviating the bottom hand wrist.

Educated hands.

 

[TDS]

I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Direction is a key component in my understanding of the overall swing process. But I want to focus more on the phrase I have bolded above. Does the "release" you are referring to include ulnar deviation of the bottom wrist (and the subsequent other movements that the hand set must perform to allow this to happen)? And if so, do you consider this process (the release) to also be a timing component? For example, if a hitter is fooled by a pitch, does (s)he have the ability to alter the timing of this release mid-stream in order to improve his/her odds of squaring up? I will go on record as saying that I think experienced hitters are capable of making some fine adjustments such as this. I think this is a byproduct of educated hands. I know some others will say that the window is so short that the hitter doesn't have time to think about those things.

Yes, and IMO one should be attempting to keep the hands and barrel working within the body (red lines) as long as possible for maximum transfer of energy.. Some purposely force supination which bleeds the energy transfer.

 

[bullethead]

Hands to the ball. It has validity if used and explained correctly. If she tips the barrel and then takes her hands "to the ball" from the tip, you will see a change. Tell her to forget about "turning the barrel".

There it is --- taboo.

How about "uptick" and "turn the barrel to the ball" have validity if used and explained correctly? How about maybe there is not any difference in what you are saying and where Matt Pierce ultimately goes with his progressions? How about showing the Kirby demo in their backyard? You used to gush about it. Is it not yours and thus not cool anymore? Or is it the fact that particular video and some of Matt's may be essentially indistinguishable and thus rain on your forum dominating parade?

There are tons of sayings and demo's that have validity - if used and explained correctly - to use your teensie weensie caveat. All I was trying to do was was show a hitting instructor that by my definition has had success, actually posts his hitters and the progressions they work on - some of which parents/kids may be able to relate to and improve from. You could literally run through all of the videos/then get up and swing to duplicate in less than two hours. If you think they suck, don't use them on your kid. Believe it or not, some people have hard time relating to "just do what Miggy does" for every swing flaw. That's all I'm saying

The irony, is I DON'T disagree with what you are saying - if you have "had it explained correctly". In fact, it may make more sense to some aspiring hitters than other cues, or it may not. As you just elaborated, the how, when and where do matter to the cue of "just take your hands to the ball". Shocking. Could that cue get overbaked - not a chance - lol. Anyway, I will shut up now since - "I am lost". Have a good weekend.


PS - @ FFS - you are so full of it. Seriously - how many billions of posts have you made about "just turn the "friggin" barrel honey". Chappy steps in - now, you are his new BFF(again) and "hands to the balling yo arse off".

 

[Howe]

How about "uptick" and "turn the barrel to the ball" have validity if used and explained correctly?

I'm all ears, please explain. Please note in advance though, the grandfather of the theory states: "you turn the barrel THEN find the ball".

In regards to the kid and drill mentioned.
Can you honestly say Mini is practicing the "uptick drill" here??? That he's preventing his rear arm from extending into (not after) into release???

Looks to me like he's using imagery of location - getting the handle of the loaded barrel in place - releasing the barrel. Already beginning to extend before the release.

Can you visually see the knob on this practice/drill swing? Bet he's imagining a fb up/in... LOL

Do you think that is a hand-path he'd take on an outside pitch???

Notice how his rear elbow does not stall at his ribcage? That's a sure sign that he's not practicing UPTICK FIRST and then FINDING THE BALL.

Eh, what's the use?

 

[Howe]

bullethead, I'll go back on mute. Sorry for dominating your forum. Please go back to spreading that stellar information.

 

[Buttermaker]

Howe just likes the way his back elbow travels clear of his body and does not get stuck....

 

[RichK]

Some instruction is mutually exclusive (ie, good/bad). Some is only mutually exclusive if you're in a turf war.

I think you can (and I do) use uptick concept with hitters to help them feel aggressive handle torque and a tight hand pivot point (versus pivoting around the elbow that shows up as drag or drop/level). The idea of uptick or pinwheel can be a shock to the system that helps them reset their mind about what a swing actually *is* and how it *works*.

I also like and use the more directional barrel-turning to locations as demonstrated by that very excellent young hitter above, especially as a stopping off point before challenging them to figure out how to hit 10 out of 10 line drives from in-out-high-low tee locations -- which requires a good understanding and execution of directional barrel launch.