- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
I thought you had this stuff nailed down? what is so hard about understanding that the resistance is the variable?
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FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Just trying to show you why these descriptions have confused folks for years. You seemed interested in providing clarity … hence the nudge. If you aren’t interested, then I’m fine with that.
There was a description of the top of the front leg being pulled back into the front hip. It is pointed out that this creates “tight hip flexion” as opposed to bending over. CP recommends that this start at the point of toe-touch.
So we have answers of … it starts coming out of the stance … with two legs in usage … a potential answer of this occurring from the stance to peak lead-side lateral bend … a potential answer of this beginning at toe-touch ... with just one leg, the lead leg … and a potential answer of this occurring everywhere in the swing with degrees of variance.
I’m perfectly fine if you aren’t interested in providing additional clarity. No skin off my back.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
If you haven't been able to explain this adequately in 11,000+ posts, perhaps the problem is yours, not everyone else's. Just a possibility to consider.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
GM, with over 5,100 posts you haven't described the TDS/Butter BB/A$$ approach. Why do you figure that is? Maybe because you didn't have that as a goal
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CP, the swooshes are drawn at the point in the swing were the front foot makes initial contact with the ground.
Just to clarify, is this where you believe the top of the front leg pulls back into the front hip?
Swooshes are the first visible pulling back...but there is resistance the whole time...pulling back with both hips has been a constant this whole discussion.
Stand up and try it - pull back into both hips simultaneously...the pelvis tightens across and (and my inguinal hernia feels it)
CP
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
GM, with over 5,100 posts you haven't described the TDS/Butter BB/A$$ approach. Why do you figure that is? Maybe because you didn't have that as a goal
Yeah, you're right, my goal hasn't been to pretend I'm the wizard behind the curtain who knows everything and am compelled to correct anyone who believes differently. Too much of a burden IMO. YMMV.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Five, its about resistance within the plane of movement.. I like cat/cow/cat movement, Butter likes the top of the leg pulls back into the hip. Either way it's about movement/resistance within the correct plane.
Thank you TDS.
Resistance is pretty much key.
I don't personally use the Cat/Cow/Cat analogy in teaching ... or at least I haven't at this point in time.
Regarding the cue of the "top of the leg pulls back into the hip", I am likely understanding that different, and it may be that I associate that 'feel' differently as well, as for me the 'feel' is more akin to taking place along the way from 'stance' to 'peak lead-side lateral bend'. It's not a feel I associate going into toe-touch.
I have enjoyed our discussions when they get down to a tone at this level ... casual exchange of hitting information.
I need to personally thank Butter here. Tonight I was working with a hitter that had issues ... throwing the hands back too far and a positive forward attack angle (lead shoulder above the rear shoulder). The two issues are of course related. In any event the points-of-emphasis for this kid tonight were "forward lead-side lateral bend" and "compactness" (which comes from keeping the hands relatively quiet and allowing forward lead-side lateral bend to take its course). The cue that worked for this kid was ... drum roll ... .... ... "we go forward by performing a lead-side hip hike". Got the hip hike idea a while back from Rayr. It worked wonders for this kid. So thank you Butter.
And TDS ... a 'thank you' for the cordial discussions.
Wish you happy New Year.
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FiveFrameSwing
Banned
CP, the swooshes are drawn at the point in the swing were the front foot makes initial contact with the ground.
Just to clarify, is this where you believe the top of the front leg pulls back into the front hip?
Swooshes are the first visible pulling back...but there is resistance the whole time...pulling back with both hips has been a constant this whole discussion.
Stand up and try it - pull back into both hips simultaneously...the pelvis tightens across and (and my inguinal hernia feels it)
CP
CP, when you speak of this “pulling back”, are you speaking of the top of the front leg pulling back into the front hip?
I see you now mention hips (plural). Earlier you spoke of “the front leg pulling back” (post #627) and you also recommended to Sticks that he have his DD try “to get her to pull back into her front hip sooner” (post #621).
So while you say that “pulling back with both hips has been a constant this whole discussion”, I need to point out that ‘you’ have been speaking of one hip … and specifically the front hip.
I would enjoy the opportunity to stand up and try what you are attempting to describe. But first I need to better understand what you are attempting to describe and recommend. When you say to “pull back into both hips simultaneously” … is this at the toe-touch position with the ‘red’ swooshes in the above photo? Is this “pull back” pertaining to the front hip associated with blocking the body going forward (block/push)? If so, does it lead to extension of the front leg? If so, how does that equate to Butter’s description of flexion? Does it mean that you are talking about a different ‘pull back’? Regarding your description of the rear hip ‘pull back’, is this associated with maintenance of pressure in the upper rear leg tension?
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