Swing feedback

[chrispots]

CP, when you speak of this “pulling back”, are you speaking of the top of the front leg pulling back into the front hip?

I see you now mention hips (plural). Earlier you spoke of “the front leg pulling back” (post #627) and you also recommended to Sticks that he have his DD try “to get her to pull back into her front hip sooner” (post #621).

So while you say that “pulling back with both hips has been a constant this whole discussion”, I need to point out that ‘you’ have been speaking of one hip … and specifically the front hip.

I would enjoy the opportunity to stand up and try what you are attempting to describe. But first I need to better understand what you are attempting to describe and recommend. When you say to “pull back into both hips simultaneously” … is this at the toe-touch position with the ‘red’ swooshes in the above photo? Is this “pull back” pertaining to the front hip associated with blocking the body going forward (block/push)? If so, does it lead to extension of the front leg? If so, how does that equate to Butter’s description of flexion? Does it mean that you are talking about a different ‘pull back’? Regarding your description of the rear hip ‘pull back’, is this associated with maintenance of pressure in the upper rear leg tension?

Five,

This is no difference than any of the other commentaries on the topic made by Butter, TDS or Noon. I have a pretty lengthy PM going on with them well into last year on the topic. I'm not crossing lanes on them...I was just trying to keep it simple for some of the moms and dads who seem to be looking for a more practical way to teach their kids...

You don't need any more than what I asked initially. I can get a 10 year old to do it...stand up, shoulder width apart and feel like you are pulling both butt cheeks over your heels...try it and see how your legs react when you swing...get fancy and do a high leg kick ala Donaldson or Bautista while holding that feel of tension across your pelvis as long as you can...what do you feel? What do your legs do? How does your core tighten and release?

Lastly, does this (the tension across the pelvis) help keep your movements out of (or at least minimize) the frontal plane? That was at the core of my recommendation to Stick...CP

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Five,

This is no difference than any of the other commentaries on the topic made by Butter, TDS or Noon. I have a pretty lengthy PM going on with them well into last year on the topic. I'm not crossing lanes on them...I was just trying to keep it simple for some of the moms and dads who seem to be looking for a more practical way to teach their kids...

You don't need any more than what I asked initially. I can get a 10 year old to do it...stand up, shoulder width apart and feel like you are pulling both butt cheeks over your heels...try it and see how your legs react when you swing...get fancy and do a high leg kick ala Donaldson or Bautista while holding that feel of tension across your pelvis as long as you can...what do you feel? What do your legs do? How does your core tighten and release?

Lastly, does this (the tension across the pelvis) help keep your movements out of (or at least minimize) the frontal plane? That was at the core of my recommendation to Stick...CP

It would help if you would answer the first question ....

CP, when you speak of this “pulling back”, are you speaking of the top of the front leg pulling back into the front hip?

 

[Shawn]

5frames,

I would like to see some of your questions answered. I think their describing "folding", but I'm not sure 100%. Folding came from Jim Dixon, I think that is what is being described. If it's folding then I'm not about the video above as the hips start. Folding begins much earlier.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

5frames,

I would like to see some of your questions answered. I think their describing "folding", but I'm not sure 100%. Folding came from Jim Dixon, I think that is what is being described. If it's folding then I'm not about the video above as the hips start. Folding begins much earlier.

Shawn, I'm scratching my head a bit.

Think about it.

From this position here ....

.... the suggestion is to pull back with the top of both legs into the hips, and that this will lead to flexion in the front leg.

Normally the actions performed at this portion of the swing result in the front leg becoming extended.

 

[chrispots]

It would help if you would answer the first question ....

Holy God...

Put 2+2 together...a 10 year old can do it...can you?

Apparently you can't...not because you can't but because you don't want to...I was clear in my last post as to what you should try and you respond with the same question...

No point in carrying on any further discussion with a closed mind...CP

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Holy God...

Put 2+2 together...a 10 year old can do it...can you?

Apparently you can't...not because you can't but because you don't want to...I was clear in my last post as to what you should try and you respond with the same question...

No point in carrying on any further discussion with a closed mind...CP

It's really a simple question ....

CP, when you speak of this “pulling back”, are you speaking of the top of the front leg pulling back into the front hip?

All you need type is three letters ("yes") or two letters ("no"). The fact that you prefer to type many more characters to avoid such a basic question is rather telling.

 

[Buttermaker]

Shawn, I'm scratching my head a bit.

Think about it.

From this position here ....

.... the suggestion is to pull back with the top of both legs into the hips, and that this will lead to flexion in the front leg.

Normally the actions performed at this portion of the swing result in the front leg becoming extended.

Not sure how you come to this conclusion. Pulling back into the hips causes extension? Really? Well, yes it does lead to extension but the act of pulling back does not. But, if you bypassed this phase you would be muscling the extension and probably getting there too early which leads to lower back issues (excessive arching)

 

[Buttermaker]

Holy God...

Put 2+2 together...a 10 year old can do it...can you?

Apparently you can't...not because you can't but because you don't want to...I was clear in my last post as to what you should try and you respond with the same question...

No point in carrying on any further discussion with a closed mind...CP

Chris - do not sweat it. This is the game he plays - trying to trip people up on each word/description they use to try and describe things. Now, of course because talk is of the front hip - that means we are not talking about both hips anymore and that is just too confusing for him.

 

[Buttermaker]

And according to Shawn - all we are talking about is Dixon's folding. And while I enjoyed Dixon's book - it was an incomplete work.

 

[Buttermaker]

Thank you TDS.

Resistance is pretty much key.

I don't personally use the Cat/Cow/Cat analogy in teaching ... or at least I haven't at this point in time.

Regarding the cue of the "top of the leg pulls back into the hip", I am likely understanding that different, and it may be that I associate that 'feel' differently as well, as for me the 'feel' is more akin to taking place along the way from 'stance' to 'peak lead-side lateral bend'. It's not a feel I associate going into toe-touch.

I have enjoyed our discussions when they get down to a tone at this level ... casual exchange of hitting information.

I need to personally thank Butter here. Tonight I was working with a hitter that had issues ... throwing the hands back too far and a positive forward attack angle (lead shoulder above the rear shoulder). The two issues are of course related. In any event the points-of-emphasis for this kid tonight were "forward lead-side lateral bend" and "compactness" (which comes from keeping the hands relatively quiet and allowing forward lead-side lateral bend to take its course). The cue that worked for this kid was ... drum roll ... .... ... "we go forward by performing a lead-side hip hike". Got the hip hike idea a while back from Rayr. It worked wonders for this kid. So thank you Butter.

And TDS ... a 'thank you' for the cordial discussions.

Wish you happy New Year.

Lead side hip hike was a way to activate those inner core muscles to create movement of the spine. Specifically the Quadratus Lomborum. The front hip itself should fight to stay down by pulling back (sagittal action) but the front heel will get pulled off the ground and the spine will laterally bend if done correctly pulling the rib cage and top of the pelvis together. The thoracic spine should be flexing (Cat) as part of the lateral bending. If the thoracic spine is not flexing then the action will be too much in the frontal plane. The thoracic spinal flexion also contributes to PPT (posterior pelvic tilt) which is the variable resistance. Compound movements.

Extreme example but you should be able to get the idea - meaning your goal is to not copy the actual position shown - keeping the spine stable within these movements should be your goal.