Somewhat Different Collision at Home Plate

[MTR]

I see the "you never have to slide" argument being brought up, which I don't disagree with, but I am seeing more and more umps from differing organizations telling the girls they do have to slide or they will call them out on a play at the base or plate every time. Even giving the first time they don't as a warning to the team and coach and anytime afterward's automatically calling the runner out even if the tag wasn't even close. Happened at a USSSA event last month. Maybe this is some small sect of umps doing this but have seen it a lot in 3 different states this year. To the point that a lot of coaches and parents do believe that this is an actual rule AND umps are enforcing it as a rule on state level tournaments.


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Umpires should not be offering directions directly to the players.

 

[Comp]

I think people confuse "crashing" with a requirement to slide. The ASA rule on crashing is in effect when the defender has or is actively receiving the ball for the tag, and the runner, still on their feet, runs into the defender instead of sliding, going around, or jumping to avoid the tag.

Depending on where the ball was and where the pitcher was, the first runner might have even been given an obstruction call, unless the pitcher was actually receiving the ball when contract occurred.

At least that's how I understand things. If time was called, though, I have no idea why three last run scored.

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The crash rule only applies when the defender is in possession of the ball and "waiting" to make a tag. Actively receiving a throw has no bearing on the rule, but that never gives the offense the right to run over anyone on purpose.

 

[Andy S]

The crash rule only applies when the defender is in possession of the ball and "waiting" to make a tag. Actively receiving a throw has no bearing on the rule, but that never gives the offense the right to run over anyone on purpose.

I thought the last time I looked, the language included "actively receiving", but there were notes saying that didn't mean waiting on a thrown ball. And yes, intentionally running someone down isn't allowed. But it's a judgement call as to intent, runner options to get to the plate that may be blocked, etc.

At least that's how it has been explained to me, combined with reading the rulebook.

If it was a flagrant collision, eject the player, I agree.

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[Comp]

I never received my 2016 ASA rule book, so unless something has been added ASA has never had anything referencing actively receiving. That would be NCAA

ASA 8-7-Q, When a defensive player has the ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player.

Rule Supplement 13, In an effort to prevent injury and protect a defensive player attempting to make a play on a runner, a runner must be called out when they remain on their feet and crash into a defensive player who is holding the ball and waiting to apply a tag.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I never received my 2016 ASA rule book, so unless something has been added ASA has never had anything referencing actively receiving. That would be NCAA

And that's for OBS, not crash interference. NCAA rules:

12.13 Collisions
The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions, whenever possible.

12.13.1 A defensive player shall not block the base, plate or baseline without possession of the ball or not in the immediate act of catching the ball if it impedes the runner.
EFFECT—Delayed dead ball is signaled. Obstruction is called and the runner is declared safe. Each runner must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the infraction. Exception: If the runner collides flagrantly, the ball is dead, and although the runner is declared safe on the obstruction call, she is ejected. (Behavioral ejection)

12.13.2 In order to prevent injury and protect the defensive player attempting to make a play on a runner, the runner must be called out if she remains on her feet and deliberately, with great force, crashes into a defensive player holding the ball and waiting to apply a tag. In order to prevent a deliberate crash ruling, the runner can slide, jump over the top of the defender holding the ball, go around the defender or return to the previous base touched.
EFFECT—The ball is dead. The runner is called out for deliberately crashing into a fielder, even if the ball is dislodged. If the runner deliberately crashed into a fielder holding the ball before she was put out and, in the umpire’s judgment, it was an attempt to break up an obvious double play, the offender and player being played on shall both be declared out. If the deliberate crash occurs after the runner was called out, the runner closest to home plate will also be declared out. If an obstructed runner deliberately crashes into a fielder holding the ball, the obstruction call will be ignored, and the runner will be called out.
Note: If the act is determined to be flagrant, the offender will be ejected for misconduct under Rule 13 (Behavioral ejection).

12.13.3 Simply because there is contact between the defensive and offensive player does not mean that obstruction or interference has occurred.

 

[Strike]

Umpires should not be offering directions directly to the players.

Agree. But seeing more thinking controlling the game as a license to be a part of all phases. Although, to be fair, I think that several who have done some of this is doing so with good intentions. Prevent injuries, rabid fans getting upset with collisions, etc. But I agree that they are injecting themselves too much at times. And obviously there are some poor umps out there understanding the rule books and their place in the game. But in this specific case while their ruling was completely wrong, it came from ignorance but not unfairness and I think they have good intentions. But just completely wrong.


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[MoSoftball]

Thank you all for your great information. It is a big help.

I agree with marriard that our assistant coach was in the wrong. Should not have been arguing in the first place. Head coach was tied up dealing with the injured player and wasn't able to stop him in time. I think he meant well, but let his emotions get the best of him.

Looking back on the play, I think our pitcher should probably have moved away a bit from the plate when she saw that the catcher was not going to be able to make a play on the ball in time. I still think there was plenty of room for the runner to cross the plate and not have a collision.

This was our first game, after a year of play, where a fielder / runner collision occurred and it happened twice in that game. Catcher threw out a girl stealing second base. The ball was there in plenty of time, but the runner collided with the short stop at second. Ball came out of glove, but field ump called the runner out for interference.

I'm all for aggressive base running, but not at the expense of the fielders. Maybe the other team wasn't experienced sliding, I don't know. Was the first time we had ever played that team. I'm hesitant to think that they were coached to run down fielders.

 

[chinamigarden]

10u is full of the craziest plays and situations. More so the. Any other age group. Players are still learning where to go during different plays and runners who haven't mastered sliding. you will have situations pop up that at older ages will never happen. Add in coaches who haven't yet learned the rules thoroughly and are trying to use the improperly learned rules to their advantage. Unfortunately this is also where the least experienced umps will be assigned.

It's a recipe for disaster at an age where the games are more important theN Any other games besides the WCWS

 

[BretMan]

I see the "you never have to slide" argument being brought up..

It's not an argument. It's a statement of fact and it's the actual playing rule.

Maybe this is some small sect of umps doing this...

Yes, a very small sect of umpires- those who don't understand the rules!

 

[Strike]

It's not an argument. It's a statement of fact and it's the actual playing rule.




Yes, a very small sect of umpires- those who don't understand the rules!

I guess you miss the part where I said I agree that it's a rule? I've heard parents and even coaches at times argue you have to slide during games. Hence my first sentence about the "you have to slide" argument. It's now creeping into umps in our area as well. And at least one UIC during a tournament was leaning that direction on an incorrect call as well. Not involving our team but caused a good bit of controversy in a tie game. I didn't see the play though.


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