Shoulder flying off - what does it mean.

[fanboi22]

From Pattar's thread i asked a question regarding how a shoulder flies off. It seemed to me more of a posture question than an actual shoulder degree of rotation question. Can someone please show me and explain a shoulder flying off vs a good swing? And why it is bad. thanks.

 

[julray]

It’s all related FB, posture and front shoulder opening too soon. Good posture provides space for the hands to come through, allows the hitter to get behind and stay through the ball through out the zone.


The hands must travel around the back shoulder of posture is bad. This leads to an around the ball swing, instead of behind and through. When this occurs the front should is likely to fly open, sharp left/right turn depending on what side of the plate the hitter is on.

 

[fanboi22]

It’s all related FB, posture and front shoulder opening too soon. Good posture provides space for the hands to come through, allows the hitter to get behind and stay through the ball through out the zone.


The hands must travel around the back shoulder of posture is bad. This leads to an around the ball swing, instead of behind and through. When this occurs the front should is likely to fly open, sharp left/right turn depending on what side of the plate the hitter is on.

Can you show me what a sharp left turn is vs not a sharp left turn?

 

[ArmWhip]

The shoulder flies 'open' only in relation to the hands. I think of it as collapsing the box. The shoulders turn and the hands disconnect, they stay back, then by the time the hands get to where they should be the shoulders have 'spun out'.

 

[fanboi22]

The shoulder flies 'open' only in relation to the hands. I think of it as collapsing the box. The shoulders turn and the hands disconnect, they stay back, then by the time the hands get to where they should be the shoulders have 'spun out'.

So then it’s not a shoulder issue rather an issue with keeping the arms and elbows in the correct spots. IMO the shoulders move the same in any swing, disregarding the tilt. If the elbow straightens then you have arm bar. So is a flying shoulder the same thing as arm bar??

 

[julray]

Yeah shoulders rotate around the spine. If posture is poor or the hitter comes out of their posture then the shoulders rotate more east-west early, pulling off the ball, poor extension etc etc .. It’s all relative to the spine.

 

[go4um]

To me, front shoulder flying open is usually the result of something in the hitter's setup, sequence (or lack thereof) or physical abilities that are mismatched. When the hitter gets beat by speed then their brain naturally says, "start earlier". Often this is associated with a long front arm so the barrel is a little further away from the contact zone. Some people point to examples of some mlb players with long front arms and say that a long front arm is ok. Yes it is IF you have the strength and elite timing to pull it off but many don't and would be better with their hands kept closer to the zone....closer to back shoulder. A lot of long armers (even in mlb) hit a lot of toppers because they flip roll when they are late causing the barrel to hit the top of ball.

 

[fanboi22]

Yeah shoulders rotate around the spine. If posture is poor or the hitter comes out of their posture then the shoulders rotate more east-west early, pulling off the ball, poor extension etc etc .. It’s all relative to the spine.

So its not that the shoulder is flying more of a distance, it is the shoulders flying the same distance in the wrong direction? If that is the case, i would argue that DFP make a global change in this verbiage and tell everyone in the global baseball/fastpitch community to stop using the phrase and call it.............well something else. haha.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

The front shoulder should fly open. What goes wrong is when the hands move forward from right to left RHB. Then the bat is moved away from the axis and quickly gets pulled by the knob out of the zone. The barrel never turns to the ball and instead gets dragged parallel to itself.
Keeping the hands back and at the center of the rotation turns the barrel. Then again, actually torquing the handle turns the barrel.
Arm bar doesn't matter if the hands stay close to the center of rotation. In fact, arm bar allows a greater leverage to produce handle torque and subsequent barrel turn. What makes arm bar difficult is rotating the body around that axial center, but if mastered, you're the next Ken Griffey.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

The front shoulder should fly open. What goes wrong is when the hands move forward from right to left RHB. Then the bat is moved away from the axis and quickly gets pulled by the knob out of the zone. The barrel never turns to the ball and instead gets dragged parallel to itself.
Keeping the hands back and at the center of the rotation turns the barrel. Then again, actually torquing the handle turns the barrel.
Arm bar doesn't matter if the hands stay close to the center of rotation. In fact, arm bar allows a greater leverage to produce handle torque and subsequent barrel turn. What makes arm bar difficult is rotating the body around that axial center, but if mastered, you're the next Ken Griffey.

Focus on what happens to the bat, specifically the handle of the bat, as the body moves through space. The bat turns due to torque. Torque is created when force is applied perpendicular to the bat away from its center. Everything else is wasted effort.