Should coaches or catchers call pitches?

[radness]

It’s not using data that’s the skill, it’s your ability to interpret the data that is the skill, and that’s a combination of knowledge, vantage point, and experience

 

[GunnerShotgun]

So no in-game adjustments based upon what you are seeing from the pitchers and hitters, the particular game situation, etc? In that case you could map out the pitch sequence for every hitter (based upon the count) before the game, right? One could argue that the adjustments could be made in an algorithmic manner as well (if indeed you do make adjustments) I suppose but in lieu of that ability the person calling the pitches has to use their brain to process the information he/she is receiving and you would be better at that than my 3 YO due to repetition, training, etc. just like one becomes a better hitter through repetition (find out what works, what doesn't etc), training, etc.

For (a simplistic) example, bottom of 7th, tie game, girl on third with 1 out. Would my 3 YO know that we want to try execute pitches to induce a GB? Note I am not saying that pitch calling is a difficult skill to attain (eg in this example anybody with half a brain would know this so maybe 10% of the 14U coaches around here..)..

Lets try this a different way. If pitch calling is a skill then some are good, average, and bad. How much better or worse are you than the average. IS it a run difference? Are you adding half a run a game, one run, is it 5 runs? A tenth of a run? Are you better than your assistant coach and if so by how much?

You can make the same argument that you have a special skill to make a batting lineup. If you say so.

With any "skill" I can look at the stats and tell you if you are good at it (pitching, fielding, bunting, etc.). With pitch calling you can't do that.

 

[radness]

Lets try this a different way. If pitch calling is a skill then some are good, average, and bad. How much better or worse are you than the average. IS it a run difference? Are you adding half a run a game, one run, is it 5 runs? A tenth of a run? Are you better than your assistant coach and if so by how much?

You can make the same argument that you have a special skill to make a batting lineup. If you say so.

With any "skill" I can look at the stats and tell you if you are good at it (pitching, fielding, bunting, etc.). With pitch calling you can't do that.

You have decided your own interpretation of the word skill. That's what your conversation is about. Okay got that.

In doing so you have left out a lot of other categories of things that are skills you just don't believe are skills.

How I interpret your reasoning is that you don't think using your brain to interpret situations is a skill that can be developed. Because you think of skills as measurable things like statistics.

All that is now is defining how some coaches coach predominantly off of statistics and some coaches will use their accumulated visual knowledge. And not look so much at statistics.

And some coaches use both/all accumulated knowledge.

 

[_MIA_]

You can make the same argument that you have a special skill to make a batting lineup. If you say so.

With any "skill" I can look at the stats and tell you if you are good at it (pitching, fielding, bunting, etc.). With pitch calling you can't do that.

So are we changing our definition? I like your previous one better

I can make one up for you..team ERA when pitch caller is hung over vs when they are not..You didn’t say it had to be an accurate measure of proficiency Hitting involves all kinds of stats that don’t fully measure a player’s ability to hit..

Anyway this is never going to end in an agreement..Let me know when you want my 3 YO to come call pitches for you. FYI he loves French fries and while this probably won’t help him call pitches, he gets ornery when he is hungry

 

[GunnerShotgun]

You have decided your own interpretation of the word skill. That's what your conversation is about. Okay got that.

In doing so you have left out a lot of other categories of things that are skills you just don't believe are skills.

How I interpret your reasoning is that you don't think using your brain to interpret situations is a skill that can be developed. Because you think of skills as measurable things like statistics.

All that is now is defining how some coaches coach predominantly off of statistics and some coaches will use their accumulated visual knowledge. And not look so much at statistics.

And some coaches use both/all accumulated knowledge.

When is the last time you were on a team where the SS called the pitches? 2B? CF?

If pitch calling is a skill then surely the possibility exists where the RF is the best pitch caller correct? The same way the RF could be the best hitter, base runner, or fielder.

The answer is because it's not a skill and any anyone with the same information can do it. I can't make my RF hit a home run but I can teach her how to call a game with two words. "Be random".

When you try out catchers do you test their "pitch calling skill"? Of course not. It doesn't matter.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Anyway this is never going to end in an agreement..Let me know when you want my 3 YO to come call pitches for you. FYI he loves French fries and while this probably won’t help him call pitches, he gets ornery when he is hungry

If they bring their Magic 8 ball they can absolutely call pitches for me.

 

[JayW]

anybody engaging GS is like the person who feeds potato chips to the seagulls at the beach.

 

[_MIA_]

anybody engaging GS is like the person who feeds potato chips to the seagulls at the beach.

Props on a new way of telling me I am an as* This one was quite creative..

 

[Eric F]

Lets try this a different way. If pitch calling is a skill then some are good, average, and bad. How much better or worse are you than the average. IS it a run difference? Are you adding half a run a game, one run, is it 5 runs? A tenth of a run? Are you better than your assistant coach and if so by how much?

You can make the same argument that you have a special skill to make a batting lineup. If you say so.

With any "skill" I can look at the stats and tell you if you are good at it (pitching, fielding, bunting, etc.). With pitch calling you can't do that.

Here's how I validate the quality of pitch calling...

The pitcher's dad isn't complaining about it.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

anybody engaging GS is like the person who feeds potato chips to the seagulls at the beach.

I mean it is an internet forum. Isn't that the point?

Aren't we supposed to engage in a topic of interest? Does someone post and then everyone agree? Trying to figure out how it works in your world.

I seek knowledge from people of similar interests. Lot's of smart people on here and if everyone agreed on best practices it would be pointless.

I could just go have a conversation with my assistant coaches (always nodding yes).