Shaved bat and what to do about it

[Greenmonsters]

The kids at 10U here are swinging Xeno's, Demarini's, Easton's Stealth, Synergy Speed's, etc.. We are talking 31/21 bats at this age. And they can seemingly keep the bat head up and get around on it when kids on my team swinging a 19 or 20 oz bat cannot. I know something is up but how can anyone prove it. I suppose the umpire can carry a scale and weigh them. After all shaving removes material meaning it should not weigh less than listed or it would be a altered bat? I do not see anyone really shaving a 17 oz bat. As a matter of fact if they would just let their DD swing the right length and weighted bat they probably would swing faster and hit just as hard. But then again It would not be as cool.
Look if the Dad knows it is a rules violation I would explain how it would place you and the team at risk as well as his daughter. If he does not seem to get it then and change his arrogance then I say release him. Let him be upset and you go on being able to look at yourself in the mirror every day. Period. Really stinks to hear you are in this situation. It is not cool at all. Good luck whatever you do.

Unless they're all DD's of slowpitch-playing, cheater-stick swinging Mongos, you're probably barking up the wrong tree. A mechanically sound swing (i.e., lower half driven or stretch-n-fire) can easily handle a -10 drop at 10U and provide surprising power. The lighter -11 and -12 drops can provide decent results, but typically mask the swing flaws that a -10 exposes (Tewks had a good post/blog article about light bats). The sooner those swing flaws are identified and fixed, the sooner the kid becomes a good hitter, regardless of whether its a $30 or $300 or -8 or -13 bat. IMO, its the Indian, not the arrow.

 

[llsoftball]

The kids at 10U here are swinging Xeno's, Demarini's, Easton's Stealth, Synergy Speed's, etc.. We are talking 31/21 bats at this age. And they can seemingly keep the bat head up and get around on it when kids on my team swinging a 19 or 20 oz bat cannot. I know something is up but how can anyone prove it. I suppose the umpire can carry a scale and weigh them. After all shaving removes material meaning it should not weigh less than listed or it would be a altered bat? I do not see anyone really shaving a 17 oz bat. As a matter of fact if they would just let their DD swing the right length and weighted bat they probably would swing faster and hit just as hard. But then again It would not be as cool.
Look if the Dad knows it is a rules violation I would explain how it would place you and the team at risk as well as his daughter. If he does not seem to get it then and change his arrogance then I say release him. Let him be upset and you go on being able to look at yourself in the mirror every day. Period. Really stinks to hear you are in this situation. It is not cool at all. Good luck whatever you do.

Met with parents tonight and after almost 1 hour the dad finally said he was wrong...I requested they address the team parents and let them know a mistake was made and that it would not happen again. I also said they she would only use team bats. Some of which she had already used this season. They could not get past this part and wanted to use their bats they had bought her. I offered to buy her a bat that he thought was good enough within reason but they still wouldn't budge. I finally gave up and told them unless she used a team bat they needed to leave the team. Not sure what happens now.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Met with parents tonight and after almost 1 hour the dad finally said he was wrong...I requested they address the team parents and let them know a mistake was made and that it would not happen again. I also said they she would only use team bats. Some of which she had already used this season. They could not get past this part and wanted to use their bats they had bought her. I offered to buy her a bat that he thought was good enough within reason but they still wouldn't budge. I finally gave up and told them unless she used a team bat they needed to leave the team. Not sure what happens now.

Good job, LLSB. I also think you are obligated to inform your team's organization directors about what's transpired, as they may have an existing policy or want to consider the situation relative to best interests of the entire org.

 

[llsoftball]

yes I have drafted an email to go to a couple different directors of orgs. i also told parents tonight that I was doing it. This was very hard for me but I feel like I am doing the right thing.

 

[MTR]

Unless they're all DD's of slowpitch-playing, cheater-stick swinging Mongos, you're probably barking up the wrong tree. A mechanically sound swing (i.e., lower half driven or stretch-n-fire) can easily handle a -10 drop at 10U and provide surprising power. The lighter -11 and -12 drops can provide decent results, but typically mask the swing flaws that a -10 exposes (Tewks had a good post/blog article about light bats). The sooner those swing flaws are identified and fixed, the sooner the kid becomes a good hitter, regardless of whether its a $30 or $300 or -8 or -13 bat. IMO, its the Indian, not the arrow.

While I don't disagree on your mechanics statement, the first sentence is a load of crap and the mentality that has brought the issue to this point. Years ago I was told that I should keep posts about illegal and altered bats off any FP sites simply because it was a SP problem and will never rear its ugly head in the FP game.

Well, I didn't stop, my posts relatively ignored and look what you are discussing now.

I've got bad news for you folks, but this never was a SP-only problem. And it isn't only SP dads who bring the problem to the table. There are a lot of fanatical parents chasing the carrot and will go to any length to give their DD an edge, real or perceived. These folks are everywhere, not just some small clique in some small corner of the country. I wouldn't doubt of most on this board know or suspect a parent of going to the extreme. It is really a shame because the kids just shouldn't be put in that position.

 

[pitchmom]

well you go to walmart and buy some shaving cream and disposable razors. To answer your question, yes the end cap is removed and put on a lath and honed out a little.

I know I'm gonna sound like an idiot....but I had no clue what a shaved bat was until I read this. By honing out the inside....doesnt that just make it a lighter bat. Why not just buy a lighter bat?

 

[redhotcoach]

From a study on bat doctoring:
One of the most effective means of illegally altering a bat's performance is to reduce the thickness of the barrel walls. The thinner the walls, the more elastic the barrel, and the greater the trampoline effect - resulting in faster hit ball speed. Of course thinning the walls too much creates a durability problem since thinner walls are more likely to crack or dent. A shaved bat is more likely to break or crack than an unmodified bat, or even a naturally broken-in bat.
Shaving the inner surface of a bat barrel is relatively simple as long as you have access to a good lathe. It is done by removing the end cap (without scratching the outside of the barrel end), using a lathe to shave material from the inside of the barrel, and then replacing the end cap. The photograph at right shows a lathe used by a bat doctor ready to shave the inside of a composite bat.

Many composite bats are multi-wall bats, meaning that the bat barrel is comprised of two or three layers of composite materials. Shaving the inner layer greatly weakens it to the point that it may break and fall apart, causing the bat to sound like one of those rain sticks. While the performance of such a bat may go way up for a while, the durability is greatly compromised.

But, it cannot be disputed that shaving a bat to make the barrel wall thinner does indeed improve performance. The two graphs below were provide to me by a manufacturer and show the measured batted-ball speeds for an aluminum bat (left graph) and composite bat (right graph) for which the walls were successively shaved. Removing 0.01" of material in the aluminum bat increases the batted-ball speed by 4-mph. If the original bat had the ASA certification stamp (indicating batted-ball speed below 98-mph), the modified bat now well exceeds the ASA performance limit and is now illegal. The change in the composite bat is even more dramatic. Starting with a production model bat and shaving off 4 plies on the inner diameter increases the batted-ball speed by 6.5-mph. This bat, which originally came in just under the 98-mph limit now drastically exceeds the limit, with a measured batted-ball speed of 104-mph.



The bar chart at right shows the measured change in performance for several aluminum and composite slow-pitch softball bats both before and after sending them to a bat doctor for shaving.[9,10] The bats labeled "MAxx" are multi-walled aluminum bats and those labeled "MCxx" are multi-walled composite bats. The batted-ball speed for very single bat improved by at least 2-mph, with some bats improving by almost 8-mph. The ASA performance limit is 98 mph, and every single one of these doctored bats exceeds this upper limit after being shaved. In other words, every one of these altered bats is now illegal.
Just to put an 8-mph increase in performance in performance in perspective, the difference between a softball leaving a bat at 98-mph and a softball leaving a bat at 106-mph is about 62 feet in additional distance travelled.

 

[MTR]

It should be noted that once the end cap is removed or damaged, the bat is then considered altered even if no more is done to the bat. According to the agreement specs (and rule, speaking ASA) the cap is supposed to be permanently affixed so that no one other than the manufacturer can remove it without damaging the cap.

Sort of makes you wonder if the bat manufacturers even bother considering all the alleged shaving and reports of end caps "just popping off" during play.

What many of the reports don't share is that shaving a bat reduces its life by up to 50%.

 

[chinamigarden]

I know I'm gonna sound like an idiot....but I had no clue what a shaved bat was until I read this. By honing out the inside....doesnt that just make it a lighter bat. Why not just buy a lighter bat?

its the thinner walls they are after, often times the weight removed will be added back in on the cap so the bat will weigh right on a scale

 

[Mutinebullfrog]

I am not, and did not ask for anyone to explain to me how to be a parent.
I am asking about this one case.

-parent cheats, has bat shaved.
-little girl unknowingly uses illegal shaved bat.
-you say little girl should be disciplined.
-I ask "who disciplines this innocent little girl"
- you turn it into proper parenting, and it's the parent's job.

So little girl who never knew her dad placed an illegal bat in her hands, should be disiplined by her dad, who gave her the illegal bat to use?

You're assuming the kid didn't know. I'll bet she did. I also think she should be disciplined whether she knew or not. I'm not talking about kicking them off the team. Talk to the parents and kid together. Let them know it's illegal and can hurt someone. Let them know that they can get into some serious trouble if someone get hurt. She can't use the bat and if it happens again she'll be cut. The real problem is that the parents will just pick up and play for another team that doesn't care. Very sad!