Screwball

[Rolling Hard]

View attachment 19641

Snatch the pebble from my hand.

 

[ArmWhip]

It moves by magic right?

It seems like magic until you understand the science. All your pictures show 4 seam rotation and they are valid for Magnus force affected pitches. There is another way to make a ball break that involves spin axis and 2 seam orientation. If you want to read the latest research go here;

https://www.baseballaero.com/2020/08/18/the-effect-of-gyro-on-optimal-ssw-orientation-post-60/

Gyro is a baseball term for bullet spin.

What I don't know is how the baseball research applies to softballs. Obviously the softball is bigger and heavier, however it is less dense, how this affects the aerodynamics is unknown.

 

[_MIA_]

It seems like magic until you understand the science. All your pictures show 4 seam rotation and they are valid for Magnus force affected pitches. There is another way to make a ball break that involves spin axis and 2 seam orientation. If you want to read the latest research go here;

https://www.baseballaero.com/2020/08/18/the-effect-of-gyro-on-optimal-ssw-orientation-post-60/

Gyro is a baseball term for bullet spin.

What I don't know is how the baseball research applies to softballs. Obviously the softball is bigger and heavier, however it is less dense, how this affects the aerodynamics is unknown.

Density (of the ball) will have no effect on where the flow separates (which is what is causing the seam shifted wake effect they are talking about). Ball size and velocity (which is combined into an important non-dimensional number called the Reynold number in fluid dynamics) will have some (probably minimal) effect. Spin (axis and magnitude) and seam height will likely have the largest effect.

 

[radness]

Just a softball player here,
not a physics science aerodynamic genius by any means,
What REALLY stands out to me is seeing a knuckle ball jossle back and forth with NO spin.

Sometimes seeing creates believing!

Interesting posts and good reads!
Someone posted finger pressure doesnt matter.
So does that dispell other posts saying it does matters? NO...
imo it adds the the intrigue of threads like this!

 

[radness]

Density (of the ball) will have no effect on where the flow separates (which is what is causing the seam shifted wake effect they are talking about). Ball size and velocity (which is combined into an important non-dimensional number called the Reynold number in fluid dynamics) will have some (probably minimal) effect. Spin (axis and magnitude) and seam height will likely have the largest effect.

@pattar/others

So if the seams are NOT equal
and/or the ball has a slighter heavy spot
The ball may do something out of character?!

Have seen warped ball be inconsistent.
The old debeers dudleys could get worn by the end of game.
Strange things happened!

 

[_MIA_]

@pattar/others

So if the seams are NOT equal
and/or the ball has a slighter heavy spot
The ball may do something out of character?!

Have seen warped ball be inconsistent.
The old debeers dudleys could get worn by the end of game.
Strange things happened!

Yes anything that causes asymmetric wakes, and hence asymmetric forces on the ball, will cause the ball to move.

 

[radness]

Yes anything that causes asymmetric wakes, and hence asymmetric forces on the ball, will cause the ball to move.

Thank you for concurring that!
Hmmm, reminds me of why some pitchers like a certain game ball!

 

[Quasimodo]

It seems like magic until you understand the science. All your pictures show 4 seam rotation and they are valid for Magnus force affected pitches. There is another way to make a ball break that involves spin axis and 2 seam orientation. If you want to read the latest research go here;

https://www.baseballaero.com/2020/08/18/the-effect-of-gyro-on-optimal-ssw-orientation-post-60/

Gyro is a baseball term for bullet spin.

What I don't know is how the baseball research applies to softballs. Obviously the softball is bigger and heavier, however it is less dense, how this affects the aerodynamics is unknown.

I don't believe in "the magic". You are talking to the wrong person. I believe in spins. But all of it is related to air pressure. And yes, seams, 2 or 4 create different air pressures. And a small difference in orientation can affect that difference in pressure, or even when break occurs.

 

[cnardone]

Out of character is an interesting way to put it. @pattar can correct me if I am wrong, but that example would be no different than scuffing (or shining) one side of a ball. If the pitcher knows what they are doing (Whitey Ford, Bruce Sutter), the ball will do what the pitcher is 'asking' it to do.

 

[Rolling Hard]

pattar, how about some knuckleball science?