Screw, inside drop, R/H pitcher
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
If she can throw a good peel, think about flicking the ball harder with the middle finger (assuming a two finger grip.) It should turn the axis so the ball is still about 12/6, just turned towards the batter a few degrees. I recently saw this pitch demostrated and the effect was eye opening. I was able to get something close within a few tries.
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Hi Joe,
Ken's first response is a good one... regarding the middle finger... I would not focus on the ring finger at all.
The questions you ask are good ones - take a look at this little gif I made for you - it's only two frames.
In the first frame, the only part of my hand touching the ball is the middle finger tip. It's easy to "see" 12-6 spin at this angle.
The second frame shows two fingers touching the ball, my middle and index. All I did was let the ball 'roll' from my middle finger to my index finger. See what happens to the 12-6 spin? It's now more of a 7-1 spin.
Ken and I both agree that the middle finger is the focal point - but what part of it - and what other finger contacts the ball? It's the inside (or right side) of my middle and my index. The thumb can still be opposite the middle - but realize the thumb is off the ball long before these two fingers.
So... to obtain the inside drop release, or screw for that matter, the hand needs to be oriented more 'palm-out' as I come into the release phase. This position is reached by preventing the forearm from pronating (turning inwards) longer. It will pronate, but we want to make sure that the pronation is delayed (much more with a screwball)... acting as part of the release of the ball from the fingers. This will help me maintain the position of my fingers on the ball (second frame of gif, above) and ensure that my axis is somewhere on the plus side of 7-1.
Release mechanics are tough to "type". I hope this makes sense to you. Best way is to roll the ball from middle to middle-index as above - and then look at that ball orientation down by your leg - specifically to the hand position required to "see" the axis you wish to release on. Try it... hopefully it makes sense.
As far as having too small of hands... it makes no difference, IMO. You can use the 3-finger grip, but maintain your release focus on the first two fingers... not the ring and middle.
Cheers, ~JS
Last edited:
javasource,
Now that's a cut and paste save-it post! Thanks!
Any additional insight regarding the pads of the fingers. Is the ball only held by the end-of-finger pads on both fingers, or is the ball touching two of the pads of the middle finger and only the end pad of the index finger?
Now that's a cut and paste save-it post! Thanks!
Any additional insight regarding the pads of the fingers. Is the ball only held by the end-of-finger pads on both fingers, or is the ball touching two of the pads of the middle finger and only the end pad of the index finger?
Last edited:
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Doug, good questions. It depends on the pitcher and the pitch. The answer isn't as clear regarding the pads - it's a preference/hand-type thing. This is one of those 'large hands' advantages in ways... because I find (read: for me) that my spin is better with just fingertips... meaning less is more. That said, the pitcher must have control of the ball before they can manipulate it... see what I mean... more of a "use what you have/can" answer.... My DD just started pitching... and like me... she's tall w/big hands. She's 5 months into pitching and spinning 18+ (on a good axis) - and she uses mostly the first pad.
In regards to the influence of pad-to-finger or finger-to-pad... it depends on the pitch. The index finger is the main player for a screw (meaning the middle is just there for stability... not as much influence... imagine the 'roll' happening on the index) - and the emphasis on delayed i/r (forearm pronation) really comes into focus.
With an inside drop, I lean more towards pressure with the inside of the middle finger. To me... the inside drop IS the i/r fastball... and I much prefer this type of movement - as compared to a screw. So when people ask me what movement pitch their DD will learn first, I always say they already learned the inside drop. Meaning... they don't have to worry about having to table their fastball... ever.
In regards to the influence of pad-to-finger or finger-to-pad... it depends on the pitch. The index finger is the main player for a screw (meaning the middle is just there for stability... not as much influence... imagine the 'roll' happening on the index) - and the emphasis on delayed i/r (forearm pronation) really comes into focus.
With an inside drop, I lean more towards pressure with the inside of the middle finger. To me... the inside drop IS the i/r fastball... and I much prefer this type of movement - as compared to a screw. So when people ask me what movement pitch their DD will learn first, I always say they already learned the inside drop. Meaning... they don't have to worry about having to table their fastball... ever.
Last edited:
That's awesome. This is the spin orientation used for teaching I/R as demonstrated in board members thread ( what do I Mean ) . A 1/7 2/8 spin, just delay the forearm rotation. I actually teach the inside drop / screw by changing the power line like a screw but throwing the peel drop. So I guess I this is pretty close to what Javasoursce is explaining without the extra index finger pressure.
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Joe,
Yeah, I always make it a point to read his posts. He has a gift explaining this stuff.
You mention the inside drop being taught like a screw in regards to the powerline. Although I agree with showing this orientation of the feet (as it does change the trajectory angle), I wouldn't leave it at just that... as the result will be an angled, straight-line drop. To me, left/right movement is evidenced and most effective when it has a parabolic bend... which is the result of the spin axis being off of 'vertical'. If you leave it at just foot mechanics... pitchers become a lot easier to pick apart. It's like teaching a drop with a much shorter step, or a curve with a pronounced step to the left... or a rise as just a low release fastball that simply moves up.
I'm not harping on you, Joe... please realize that. I just think that you're overlooking the most important piece... and emphasizing the least important. Meaning, the axis of spin (inside drop should not spin vertical) should be the first priority - and then you can add some window dressings that 'help' the angled trajectory of the pitch once your pitcher has learned how to spin the pitch, like shoulder height and stride marking... as I call it.
Yeah, I always make it a point to read his posts. He has a gift explaining this stuff.
You mention the inside drop being taught like a screw in regards to the powerline. Although I agree with showing this orientation of the feet (as it does change the trajectory angle), I wouldn't leave it at just that... as the result will be an angled, straight-line drop. To me, left/right movement is evidenced and most effective when it has a parabolic bend... which is the result of the spin axis being off of 'vertical'. If you leave it at just foot mechanics... pitchers become a lot easier to pick apart. It's like teaching a drop with a much shorter step, or a curve with a pronounced step to the left... or a rise as just a low release fastball that simply moves up.
I'm not harping on you, Joe... please realize that. I just think that you're overlooking the most important piece... and emphasizing the least important. Meaning, the axis of spin (inside drop should not spin vertical) should be the first priority - and then you can add some window dressings that 'help' the angled trajectory of the pitch once your pitcher has learned how to spin the pitch, like shoulder height and stride marking... as I call it.
I agree on the everything looking the same, although IMO most hitters if they are looking at the pitchers feet, they miss the ball just before the release. I'm sure an elite hitter would be able to pick it up. Anyway when one of my pitchers goes to a winter camp for college, the coaches usually ask to see their screwball. Same with the NFCA recruiting camps, the Revfire data shows drop, rise, curve, and screwball spin rates. Recently one of my higher level pitchers went to a camp and used the inside drop as her screw and the coach was impressed with it. Although it wasn't a traditional screwball, most don't know the difference.
I will definately work on using your spin axis to throw the inside drop. I have a few with a really sharp peel with high spin rates, can't wait to try this.
This is the the answer I was looking for and your knowledge and explaination is above the top. Thanks.
On a side note some of my pitchers are doing workouts with their high school, spend 1st 15 minutes on wrist flicks! Ugh
I will definately work on using your spin axis to throw the inside drop. I have a few with a really sharp peel with high spin rates, can't wait to try this.
This is the the answer I was looking for and your knowledge and explaination is above the top. Thanks.
On a side note some of my pitchers are doing workouts with their high school, spend 1st 15 minutes on wrist flicks! Ugh
