Scoring Question – Errors, RBI’s and Earned Runs

[Indiana]

I agree with the scoring, but more accurately it should be bragged about as a "Walk-Off Grand Slam"

Ha ha!! Gotta love these kids - the batter was jumping up and down, mobbed by his teammates, they all definitely acted like it was a walk off grand slam - in the world series! I couldn't help but feel a little bit sad for the losing team - what a way to go!

China - I agree with your wife; us girls have to stick together - Seriously, though, hmmm. My gut reaction was FC, but now I can see how it could be a base hit. If you say base hit the runner gets credited with a hit and an RBI; if you say FC it's an 0 for 1 with an RBI... I'm sure the batter would argue base hit! I am very thankful for this thread; I've been keeping score for about a year now and there's always more to learn.

 

[left turn]

Agreed, the run is earned. Just to clarify, even though it was a poor throw no error would've been awarded to the firstbaseman if the runner simply retreated safely to 3B and didn't advance on the overthrow i.e., the E3 is for allowing the runner to advance on the overthrow. As such, without the error, the runner still would've been on 3B and would've scored on the next batter's clean hit and the run is considered earned.

Thanks Greenmonsters. So if it is an earned run because the run would have scored anyway, then why isn't it an RBI because the batter clearly would have plated the run with the hit if the error had not happened. They seem like the flip side of the same question to me.

 

[left turn]

I have been trying to follow the NCAA scoring rulebook.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

I have been keeping score of games for quite a while and I am still learning.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks Greenmonsters. So if it is an earned run because the run would have scored anyway, then why isn't it an RBI because the batter clearly would have plated the run with the hit if the error had not happened. They seem like the flip side of the same question to me.

You are comparing two statistics that have different functions.

An earned run exists as a statistic to help measure the effectiveness of a pitcher despite his/her defense. That's a meaningful statistic. It allows you to fairly compare two pitchers from different teams whose defenses might be much better or worse. To do this, you count ''runs allowed'' and ''earned runs allowed.''

What you are suggesting is essentially a statistic that you might call ''earned RBI'' as opposed to ''actual RBI.'' There's not much usefulness in a stat that measures how many runs a batter drives in despite the opponent's defense.

 

[left turn]

You are comparing two statistics that have different functions.

An earned run exists as a statistic to help measure the effectiveness of a pitcher despite his/her defense. That's a meaningful statistic. It allows you to fairly compare two pitchers from different teams whose defenses might be much better or worse. To do this, you count ''runs allowed'' and ''earned runs allowed.''

What you are suggesting is essentially a statistic that you might call ''earned RBI'' as opposed to ''actual RBI.'' There's not much usefulness in a stat that measures how many runs a batter drives in despite the opponent's defense.

Coogans, that makes sense. Thank you.

 

[Indiana]

I have been trying to follow the NCAA scoring rulebook.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

I have been keeping score of games for quite a while and I am still learning.

Thanks for this link!

 

[Greenmonsters]

Good to note that NCAA scoring rules and guidelines are somewhat different than NFCA's. WPs and PBs for example. Under NFCA, a ball hitting the dirt that eludes the catcher and allows a runner to advance is a WP, whereas it would be a PB per NCAA if it was reasonably expected be be caught by the catcher. Now you could make a case that a catcher is supposed to block, not catch, balls in the dirt so any ball in the dirt should never be expected to be caught and therefore should be ruled a WP if a runner advances!

 

[X pitcher]

I say RBI for #2 and an earned run because the run that scored, got on, with a triple.

 

[MsDinosaur]

No outs
Batter One hits a triple
Batter Two hits a ground ball to the third baseman
Third baseman holds runner at third base and throws out Batter One at first base
Runner at third base takes a big lead, but doesn’t break for home
First baseman tries to pick off the runner (Batter One) at third base and makes an errant throw, runner scores
Batter Three batter hits a clean single with the bases empty

Scoring:
Is this an RBI for Batter Three? It was a clean single and if not for the error Batter Three would have batted in the run
If this is an RBI, is the run earned or unearned for the pitcher?

Ok, I know I don't know bupkiss about scoring, but I'd give Batter Two the RBI. She was the one who put the ball in play, allowing Batter One to take the big lead which drew the errant throw. Even though she was out at first, it was still a live ball at the time of the error and score. Sometimes you get lucky when you put the ball in play. :-D JMHO.

 

[Indiana]

Good to note that NCAA scoring rules and guidelines are somewhat different than NFCA's. WPs and PBs for example. Under NFCA, a ball hitting the dirt that eludes the catcher and allows a runner to advance is a WP, whereas it would be a PB per NCAA if it was reasonably expected be be caught by the catcher. Now you could make a case that a catcher is supposed to block, not catch, balls in the dirt so any ball in the dirt should never be expected to be caught and therefore should be ruled a WP if a runner advances!

You're right; PB vs. WP is the toughest thing for me to judge.

I think I agree that batter #2 would get the RBI - I didn't think you could award "rectroactive" RBI's. Batter 2 was the one involved in the play.