Running up the score?

[mad hornet]

I grew up on baseball. One unwritten rule was: when you had a team beat, you no longer bunt and steal. Some coaches broke this rule, and they were heavily denigrated by their peers and regarded as classless jerks. There was a local NAIA college coach who did this and the other D-III coaches used to use this against him in recruiting players. If you played college ball in the 80's in Central Ohio you probably know who I'm referring to.

Now by way of comparison, I'm relatively new to fastpitch but I've coached high school, rec, and travel. Is it my imagination or does this unwritten rule not apply to fastpitch?

I've seen a high school team continue bunting and stealing with a 20 run lead. Also seen so-called elite program travel teams bunt and steal with 12 run lead in the final inning. Even delayed steal home with a 9 run lead in the final inning.

Now, I would not suggest for one second that you tell your players to play less than 100 percent in any situation. But when the game is in hand they hit away. Base coaches don't try to stretch doubles into triples, you don't call bunts, steals, etc.

At the very least I think it is in poor taste but I thought I would put it out there. Is there something about girls fastpitch that makes this unwritten rule not applicable and I'm not seeing it?

 

[jimginas]

I've been fortunate to coach with coaches that do have enough class to realize when the game was out of control and use that opportunity to work in other players and pull back so not to run up the score. I've seen many that do the same.

*** I've also unintentionally ticked off coaches and parents by trying NOT to run up the score. They asked me NOT to embarrass their girls by not trying. We always tried, but I used to work left side of the plate, not taking extra bases, and even stepping off a base before a pitch.
-- So, if you continue to hit and score -everyone is up in arms, if you try and limit it, you get critized for showing up the other team.
** I continue to try and have class and not run up the score when the game is obviously decided and out of control. I tell my girls its about SPORTSMANSHIP and CLASS. If the other team doesn't understand, I'm sorry, but I'm still trying to teach my girls to have the same values I believe in. respect for the game, sportsmanship and class.

 

[mad hornet]

See, that's why I say that you always want the kids giving 100%. I agree you work in the subs, but have the kids hit away.

I think when the game is in hand you drop the tactical weapons like bunting and stealing. Personally I don't even give signs in that situation. I just tell 'em "your hitting!" Passed ball? Sure, runner goes but that isn't the same as stealing.

 

[jimginas]

I've tried just hitting away ONLY and not trying to stretch any extra bases that requires a slide. - didn't work for me. (One time I told the girls swing for the fence at the 1st strike - that was stupid on my part! wasn't trying to show up the other team, just give them opportunities to try and hit for homeruns, which I know usually result in popouts at best. again, really stupid on my part.)
- tried the left-handed batting so we can work on things, not too bad, but still ticked off BLUE and their coaches
- stepping off bases - not good...
SO finally, I'm settled on just play your girls that don't get much time and if we are still scoring (still not stretching bases, BUT now I'm still working on what the benefits MY batter's development.)
(( Used to have similar issues when coaching football, beating up on a team and running backup runing backs on predominantly ALL dive plays -if they can't stop a backup running back on a KNOWN dive play, sorry.))

 

[Ken Krause]

There are definitely those in this game that believe you should never let up ever for any reason. They say you should "teach your girls to play hard always" and that if you let up on an opponent you're sending them the wrong message. You should keep playing your game no matter what.

I disagree with that philosophy. In my mind, you can teach your players to play hard while also demonstrating the qualities of mercy. Kids are a lot smarter and more capable than many adults give them credit for. They can see a weak opponent as well as a strong one, and separate between the two.

 

[Comp]

Sometimes no matter what you do running up the score cant be helped unless you just decided to no longer play.

High school has to play 5 innings before a run rule. Daughters team played a school they knew was not going to be competitive. They took a JV pitcher with them to pitch the game and in the 2nd inning every batter was batting opposite. By the 3rd inning all of the subs were in the game and the coach was having girls step off the base early just to get called out, no steal attempts were being made and even on passed balls the runners were not advancing. Hits that could have easily been doubles or triples, the runners were just jogging to 1st and staying there. Final score was 34-0.

Another team they played the coach became insensed when he had a girl step off the bag early. She came out of the dugout yelling that her girls werent learning anything if he let up on them. She was so mad that they forfieted the game and left.

 

[mudbug]

The close game is much more of a necessary part of softball than baseball. And if the 10 run rule is in effect, its hard to run up a score excessively.

But, when a game IS in hand comfortably, that is a good time to work on things that the girls havent in game situations. This helps mentally even if the opposing team is weak. Its a good time to work on a suicide squeeze,delayed steals, knob bunts, hook slides, getting some girls to practice bunting, slapping, etc that dont normally do so in games.

What may look like running up a score, is not intentional. It has simply become "practice". Whos to say that they wouldnt score more if they just hit-away anyway.

I think the only thing that would be bad is to try and make the other team look bad, but I dont think thats the case most of the time (but it might seem like that to the other team)

The truth is though, playing a very weak team is bad for the better team, it convinces them mentally they are better than they are, it lets them get away with poor form and mistakes. It is not a good thing and the sooner the game is over the better. It is detriimental to them to play any other way than how they have been trained.

 

[alexander58]

Sometimes no matter what you do running up the score cant be helped unless you just decided to no longer play.

High school has to play 5 innings before a run rule. Daughters team played a school they knew was not going to be competitive. They took a JV pitcher with them to pitch the game and in the 2nd inning every batter was batting opposite. By the 3rd inning all of the subs were in the game and the coach was having girls step off the base early just to get called out, no steal attempts were being made and even on passed balls the runners were not advancing. Hits that could have easily been doubles or triples, the runners were just jogging to 1st and staying there. Final score was 34-0.

Another team they played the coach became insensed when he had a girl step off the bag early. She came out of the dugout yelling that her girls werent learning anything if he let up on them. She was so mad that they forfieted the game and left.

If the game ended 34 -0, the coach didn't do a very good job of being merciful. Stepping off bases is the only way to stop some innings, but it's the right thing to do.If the other coach complains, I'll listen.

 

[Comp]

How merciful can you be? When you brought your jv pitcher, all subs were in by 2nd inning, all batters batting opposite, you are giving them 1 to 2 outs an inning free, players are trying to give themselves up, they arent advancing more than 1 base at a time etc etc etc. At some point the other team has to make an out of their own.

 

[mad hornet]

The close game is much more of a necessary part of softball than baseball. And if the 10 run rule is in effect, its hard to run up a score excessively.

But, when a game IS in hand comfortably, that is a good time to work on things that the girls havent in game situations. This helps mentally even if the opposing team is weak. Its a good time to work on a suicide squeeze,delayed steals, knob bunts, hook slides, getting some girls to practice bunting, slapping, etc that dont normally do so in games.

What may look like running up a score, is not intentional. It has simply become "practice". Whos to say that they wouldnt score more if they just hit-away anyway.

I think the only thing that would be bad is to try and make the other team look bad, but I dont think thats the case most of the time (but it might seem like that to the other team)

The truth is though, playing a very weak team is bad for the better team, it convinces them mentally they are better than they are, it lets them get away with poor form and mistakes. It is not a good thing and the sooner the game is over the better. It is detriimental to them to play any other way than how they have been trained.

Interesting rationale. If you suicide squeezed in a baseball game with a commanding lead you would be putting your batter's safety in jeopardy.