Running through first and turning inward

[dbronstein]

This was the championship game of a rec league. The call was in our favor (we were in the field) and we lost pretty handily, it did not affect the outcome of the game at all. The league commish was the base ump, he said he didn't see which way the runner turned and asked the plate ump for help, the plate ump said she turned left, but he agreed with the interpretation that if the runner turns left it doesn't matter if she makes an attempt toward second. So any protest wouldn't have gotten very far.

 

[Northball]

This is why as an umpire you should always use the words judgement and use a ruling that involves judgement (umpiring 101). Not that this would ever happen but in this instance you could actually protest the game. If you ask him in front of UIC and TD is the reason you are calling out only because she crossed the line and crossing the line means she is now in jeopardy of being tagged out? and he says yes it is an easy win...because that IS NOT the rule and if an umpire is wrong on the rule the call can be reversed. Now if he says my interpretation is by crossing the line in my judgement she is attempting to advance to the next base then even though you don't agree he is using his judgement and that can not be challenged.

Agreed. However, if an umpire is sophisticated enough to carefully choose their wording to avoid a protest, then they are probably sophisticated enough to know this rule in the first place.

 

[djcarter1966]

Agreed. However, if an umpire is sophisticated enough to carefully choose their wording to avoid a protest, then they are probably sophisticated enough to know this rule in the first place.

This is true but I umped for about three years and I guess it was just a default for me because I didn't want the hassle as soon as you default to a judgement call the coaches know they really don't have any recourse. But looking back on it I guess you are right, some the umps I deal with now at HS level don't even realize that there is an interpretation of the rule that allows them to make it a judgement call, like you said even to pull this off you have to at least be fairly competent about what the rule is to know there is a judgement element to the rule.

 

[canyonjoe]

You are right the ump is wrong. However, it's just not a good idea to even give the appearance of making a move towards second.

 

[CoachJD]

This is why as an umpire you should always use the words judgement and use a ruling that involves judgement (umpiring 101). Not that this would ever happen but in this instance you could actually protest the game. If you ask him in front of UIC and TD is the reason you are calling out only because she crossed the line and crossing the line means she is now in jeopardy of being tagged out? and he says yes it is an easy win...because that IS NOT the rule and if an umpire is wrong on the rule the call can be reversed. Now if he says my interpretation is by crossing the line in my judgement she is attempting to advance to the next base then even though you don't agree he is using his judgement and that can not be challenged.

An umpire who understands what you say in the first sentence probably understands something as basic as the topic at hand here and it's all a moot point anyway.

 

[CoachJD]

Agreed. However, if an umpire is sophisticated enough to carefully choose their wording to avoid a protest, then they are probably sophisticated enough to know this rule in the first place.

This is what I get for replying before reading the whole thread.

I say this not to be snarky or anything, but it's true. In general, good umps aren't just good because they get calls right and know rules. They know how to talk to coaches. They know how to avoid a protestable situation. They're good at the entire job, not just seeing the play correctly. (The one exception is the older ump who knows his stuff but just may not be able to get in the best position anymore)

And bad umps...tend to be bad at everything, too.

Had a great interaction with an umpire tonight. Had a play at the plate where the catcher clearly missed the tag on her first swipe, my runner got under, and then she tagged her on the upper leg. Umpire called her out. It ended the inning. So after the play, I just went up to him and asked if my runner touched the plate because the catcher missed the tag. He told me she came up short. No idea if he was right or not because I had no way to see it, but he gave me a great answer. Thought this guy blew a call or two tonight that hurt us, too, but he's umped 4 of our games now and I hope he does more because I like how he handles a game.

 

[sluggers]

As an FYI, the proper way to overrun 1B is to turn to the left, make no movement toward 2B, find the ball or the 3B coach, and then either go or not go, depending upon the situation.

The odds of the batter-runner being called out due to a bad umpire are extremely low. I've seen it maybe once in 40+ years of coaching and playing.

On the other hand, if done correctly, you can pick up a few extra bases every season.

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

I just went up to him and asked if my runner touched the plate because the catcher missed the tag. He told me she came up short. No idea if he was right or not because I had no way to see it, but he gave me a great answer.

An opposing batter checked her swing on a pitch that was iffy at the top of the strike zone. The ump said strike, and the opposing coach, who was a constant chirper, asked if it was, "on a swing or a called strike." The ump said, "Both." I laughed and said to my assistant, "I guess he can't argue that call." It was the perfect answer to end the questioning.

 

[MoJo]

The odds of the batter-runner being called out due to a bad umpire are extremely low. I've seen it maybe once in 40+ years of coaching and playing.

Wish that were true.

 

[SeniorUmpireTim]

Umps making up their rules again.

Hey, let's refrain from making a bogus generalization, pls. Most, if not all umps, know this rule.