Runners on 1st and 3rd

[YOCOACH]

2 outs the dang runner will stop before reaching 2nd, they will not run into the out until the run scores.

Yep. And the smart 2nd baseperson or SS will throw it home before the runner will get there. Sometimes getting the out, sometimes getting the BR to return to 3rd and sometimes scoring. The odds are about 20% or less of getting the score I believe. The fact still remains, many college teams, with the catchers and players throwing with that high of a velocity, will not give up any extra bases uncontested. I know I wouldn't as a coach with players at that level. JMO.

 

[PA SB Dad]

I'm not so sure about that. There are lots of times I will take a run even if it costs me an out.

It depends on the age group you are playing. At 10U and 12U, with a runner at 3B and less than 2 outs, that runner will almost always score (on a PB, WP, or a ball put in play). Why give up an out when you don't have to? At 18 Gold, no one takes 2B on a 1st and 3rd situation because they are giving up an out and probably won't score. At 14U, good catchers will throw out the base stealer most of the time. Again, why give up the out when you don't have to? Take the base on a pitch in the dirt, etc, anything that increases your chances of 2nd and 3rd without giving up the out.

 

[CPEM]

I've thought about trying this at 10u:

F2 throws to F3, who is standing just off of 1B and ready to make a tag should the batter-runner round to go to 2B while keeping an eye on the runner at 3B. I know a smart runner at 3B would feint towards home to get the ball back to F2 and allow her teammate to get to 2B, but at 10u rec, chances are 50/50 the runner at 3B wouldn't know what to do, at least the first time. Basically looking to throw something different out there to see the reaction. The one thing holding me back from trying this? This is 10u rec, and getting two consecutive quality throws along with the awareness of when to do what is, at best, 50/50. I may have the right combination later this season.

 

[vdubya]

Regardless of age, defensive indifference is never the answer IMO. Make SOME play every time. For the sake of discussion, I'll assume that the OP is talking about younger teams. I'd recommend that most-but-not-all of the time you take the out, assuming you can make the play. GASP, You just gave up a run!

If there are two outs, make the play and there is no score and the other team is deflated.

Let's look at the zero or one out situation. Let's think about it for a minute...zero or one out and your team has allowed two baserunners. In a sport where momentum is everything, do you have reason to believe that your chances of getting out of this inning without a run scoring are pretty good? You've allowed two base runners already with zero or one out recorded...the chances of getting out of the inning without the runner on third scoring are pretty 'not good'. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Games at the young ages are usually won by the team that puts together the 'big inning'. Is it starting to sound like a good idea or a bad idea to allow another runner to reach scoring position AND eliminate the force out? Two RISP with zero or one outs means the chances of BOTH scoring are pretty decent. It is often, but not always, a reasonably good trade to yield ONE run in exchange for an out plus empty bases. The other team will think they outsmarted yours, but in reality you took away (dramatically decreased) their chance at the big inning, having only conceded the run that had great odds of scoring anyway. ---Insert sabermetrics here; reference runner on third with no outs in 10u/12u---

The OP seemed confident in his team getting the out. I say take the out and clear the bases, effectively ending the rally. Big innings win more games than a single run does.

Disclaimer: There are plenty of situations where it may be best NOT to make this trade. Refer then to Quincy's recs, except for #4. At younger ages "more often than not" applies IMO.

 

[let it be fun]

Regardless of age, defensive indifference is never the answer IMO. Make SOME play every time. For the sake of discussion, I'll assume that the OP is talking about younger teams. I'd recommend that most-but-not-all of the time you take the out, assuming you can make the play. GASP, You just gave up a run!

If there are two outs, make the play and there is no score and the other team is deflated.

Let's look at the zero or one out situation. Let's think about it for a minute...zero or one out and your team has allowed two baserunners. In a sport where momentum is everything, do you have reason to believe that your chances of getting out of this inning without a run scoring are pretty good? You've allowed two base runners already with zero or one out recorded...the chances of getting out of the inning without the runner on third scoring are pretty 'not good'. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Games at the young ages are usually won by the team that puts together the 'big inning'. Is it starting to sound like a good idea or a bad idea to allow another runner to reach scoring position AND eliminate the force out? Two RISP with zero or one outs means the chances of BOTH scoring are pretty decent. It is often, but not always, a reasonably good trade to yield ONE run in exchange for an out plus empty bases. The other team will think they outsmarted yours, but in reality you took away (dramatically decreased) their chance at the big inning, having only conceded the run that had great odds of scoring anyway. ---Insert sabermetrics here; reference runner on third with no outs in 10u/12u---

The OP seemed confident in his team getting the out. I say take the out and clear the bases, effectively ending the rally. Big innings win more games than a single run does.

Disclaimer: There are plenty of situations where it may be best NOT to make this trade. Refer then to Quincy's recs, except for #4. At younger ages "more often than not" applies IMO.

You have to take the baserunners into account. If it is speedy slapper #1 on 3rd and speedy slapper #2 on first, I will play it differently than if a slower girl is on one or both of the bags. Speed is a serious difference maker in these situations.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I want to see the catchers who are throwing 70 mph!

 

[RetiredCoach]

At 10U and 12U I would coach the catcher to fake a throw to second base and then try to pick the runner off of third. Sometimes it worked. At minimum the run didn't score on that play. Once the other team got used to that strategy and the runner on third clung to the bag, we would take a chance on getting the out at second.

 

[JAD]

At 16U we started running a play where the catcher throws down to 2B while the SS covers the bag, F4 cuts in front of the throw while watching the 3B runner. F4 has four options - let the ball go through to SS to try to get the out, cut the throw and throw behind the runner to F5 covering 3B, cut the throw and throw to F2 to try to get the 3B runner at HP, or cut the throw and hold the ball. Not sure I would recommend this for the younger age groups and you need an F4 with a high softball IQ.

 

[djcarter1966]

At 16U we started running a play where the catcher throws down to 2B while the SS covers the bag, F4 cuts in front of the throw while watching the 3B runner. F4 has four options - let the ball go through to SS to try to get the out, cut the throw and throw behind the runner to F5 covering 3B, cut the throw and throw to F2 to try to get the 3B runner at HP, or cut the throw and hold the ball. Not sure I would recommend this for the younger age groups and you need an F4 with a high softball IQ.

Looks like what I saw in Tenn v Flor game yesterday. Was a 1-0 game and they were not going to trade an out for the run so they basically gave up the base, same concept just 2B was always going to cut.

 

[YOCOACH]

I want to see the catchers who are throwing 70 mph!

Talk to the female catchers that Jay has at his clinics as instructors or the ones that train with Austin. While DD was up at the NECC summer camp last year, I had Austin work with her. There was a D2 (I think that's what DD said) catcher watching and told DD that she (not DD, the catcher) was throwing 74. I don't know how accurate that is but that's what DD told me she said and that Austin agreed.