Rear elbow leading the hands

[softballphreak]

I disagree. A bat that is too heavy would cause the hands to drop. Bat drag requires the bat to be held at the shoulder (along for the ride) too long. There is no way a heavy bat would cause the elbows to lead the swing. No way, no how.

I have corrected bat drag with the Sean Casey drill. That's what I call it. It's on MLB.com search for Sean Casey. It has never failed me.

Perhaps MTS can weigh in on this, as he is knowledgeable.



Kid's who don't lead with the hips usually have a multitude of issues and bat drag in them is coincidental. IMO.

The answer my fiend is in the upper extremities.

Over and out, I'm done.

BD

One of the effects of a heavy bat is just as you describe--the hands do drop. And when the hands drop it affects the rear elbow. That elbow then extends out in front of the dropped hands. Also known as BAT DRAG. Duh!

Try a heavy bat on a kid and see it for yourself. Then you'll have your own knowledge.

To the original poster: try it for yourself and make your own determination. Keep an open mind on all advice. Good luck.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is one of the girls. I also noticed with this clip, a hiccup in her swing right after contact.

We have a double T that we use where one of them I located inside and have them bump the ball off with the knob, then they pause before they swing and hit the 2nd ball off of the other T. It's just recently that I noticed her with the bat drag she now has. I'll double check her bat, she may be swinging a 12 drop.

This is 'bat drag' and could be addressed by teaching her how to use her hands ... after teaching her how to arrive at 'launch' in a more favorable position (e.g., with a downhill slant of the shoulders ... as in the lead shoulder moving down & in during the coil/load. Arriving in launch with a more favorable 'handset' and with the hands cocked). I wouldn't worry about what is happening right after contact at this point ... teach her how to arrive at launch and the use of the hands to assist with establishing connection.

 

[lhowser]

This is 'bat drag' and could be addressed by teaching her how to use her hands ... after teaching her how to arrive at 'launch' in a more favorable position (e.g., with a downhill slant of the shoulders ... as in the lead shoulder moving down & in during the coil/load. Arriving in launch with a more favorable 'handset' and with the hands cocked). I wouldn't worry about what is happening right after contact at this point ... teach her how to arrive at launch and the use of the hands to assist with establishing connection.

This is a big key in stopping that drag. Before changing bats (15 years ago everyone was -8 or worse)at toe touch make sure front elbow is down, lower than the rear elbow and shoulders slant slightly down and lead shoulder in and more connected at the chest area. Even do drills starting at this position..."PRESTO" watch the type of bat drag described in this thread dissapear!

 

[theaddition]

BD,

We have been using the Casey Drill in our team practices and the one's who struggled at first are now improving as their hands are more active....you cannot cheat this drill when on the front knee....if you drop your hands, drop the barrel or drop your shoulder as your first move you are dead....

It's a good drill and very hard (next to impossible) to hit with bat drag.

When my daughter does this drill, we have a progression we use which is:

20 swings with a plastic Junk Ball bat (we use foam tennis balls)
20 swings with her game bat (CF3 34/24)
20 swings with a 32oz baseball bat
10 to 20 swings with her CF3 w/12oz batting weight called Jack-it
20 more swings with the baseball bat.

Sometimes instead of the Jack-it, she'll hit with edge power weighted batting gloves which add as much as 12oz per glove. The gloves really make the hitter aware of the hands during the swing.

We do this in the off season only. That would be her warm up.

The funny thing is, even with 36oz of bat or 2 pounds of batting dloves on, she has no bat drag.
She must be Super Girl. Or more likely, she knows how to use her hands.

BD

 

[softballphreak]

It's a good drill and very hard (next to impossible) to hit with bat drag.

When my daughter does this drill, we have a progression we use which is:

20 swings with a plastic Junk Ball bat (we use foam tennis balls)
20 swings with her game bat (CF3 34/24)
20 swings with a 32oz baseball bat
10 to 20 swings with her CF3 w/12oz batting weight called Jack-it
20 more swings with the baseball bat.

Sometimes instead of the Jack-it, she'll hit with edge power weighted batting gloves which add as much as 12oz per glove. The gloves really make the hitter aware of the hands during the swing.

We do this in the off season only. That would be her warm up.

The funny thing is, even with 36oz of bat or 2 pounds of batting dloves on, she has no bat drag.
She must be Super Girl. Or more likely, she knows how to use her hands.

BD

Impressive, for sure!

How old is your DD? Physical build?

 

[theaddition]

Impressive, for sure!

How old is your DD? Physical build?

16
5'-9" 165 lbs

participates in a local speed-strength-agility workout program from Nov. thru March
Really likes working out with Kettlebells much more than traditional weight lifting.

And just for fun, Boxes with her goofy dad.

BD

 

[Wellphyt]

Wouldn't knob to the ball promote a push disconnect?

You would think so. Why not just have them throw an old bat or a Swift-Stik? Throwing the bat means the player is essentially throwing the barrel. Don't we want barrel-to-the-ball?

 

[softballphreak]

16
5'-9" 165 lbs

participates in a local speed-strength-agility workout program from Nov. thru March
Really likes working out with Kettlebells much more than traditional weight lifting.

And just for fun, Boxes with her goofy dad.

BD

A strong athlete, no doubt. Not your average athlete, for sure.

When I'm thinking bat too heavy I'm thinking younger, smaller kids. Now that I've seen the video I believe she is around the age and size I was thinking. Although there may be some bat weight issue with that kid, I'm seeing her main problem is she is leading with her hands/arms. Having her lead with her hips would be a very productive first step. As a drill, I would have her exaggerate the hip lead.

 

[RayR]

Without getting into the nuances of the swing....once this girl can learn to cock the front leg and uncock it as she lands on it....as she brings the hands back instead just coming forward things will start to improve.....

I wouldn't worry whether or not she is opening the leg too early at first because based on my experience it will be tough for her to use the front leg in that manner....so let her develop that action first....

Well and FFS can comment on the similarities on what I am describing and throwing....

As far as tee drills go...they do not fix sequence issues....because once a thrown ball is introduced the mind works differently and will revert to whatever worked before (even if it isn't very successful by our standards)

The more front toss and side toss working on the front leg and hand sequence the better....letting the ball get deep is a goal....

And the Casey drill really helps develop the hands staying up and not letting the rear elbow lead the hands....

I would put most of my time into those 2 things....my 2 cents....

Here is one of the girls. I also noticed with this clip, a hiccup in her swing right after contact.

We have a double T that we use where one of them I located inside and have them bump the ball off with the knob, then they pause before they swing and hit the 2nd ball off of the other T. It's just recently that I noticed her with the bat drag she now has. I'll double check her bat, she may be swinging a 12 drop.

 

[Justanotherdad]

You would think so. Why not just have them throw an old bat or a Swift-Stik? Throwing the bat means the player is essentially throwing the barrel. Don't we want barrel-to-the-ball?

Bingo!

What you just described is one of the drills I do with my daughter to promote barrel to the ball, not hands or knob.