PUSH the BAT or PULL the BAT

[RayR]

SL,

Pizza toss drill vs Cal Ripken bottom hand

does cal look like he pulling or using a wrist articulation to flatten the barrel as it is being thrown/turned into a backhand

The other drill looks like it builds a muscle memory that pulls the barrel around and then needs to pull off early...

Yes, i agree that the pizza toss would work but is it a path to where you would want a swing to go?

 

[straightleg]

SL,

Pizza toss drill vs Cal Ripken bottom hand

does cal look like he pulling or using a wrist articulation to flatten the barrel as it is being thrown/turned into a backhand

The other drill looks like it builds a muscle memory that pulls the barrel around and then needs to pull off early...

Yes, i agree that the pizza toss would work but is it a path to where you would want a swing to go?

The girls release point is to far out in front
I like Cals better. (Iron Man)

Cal is still pulling until release point.


I teach more the Cal swing



SL

 

[redhotcoach]

Cal warns against neglecting the bottom hand:

Every batter grips the bat with their strongest hand on top, and their less dominant hand at the bottom of the bat. The top-hand generates bat speed and power through the strength of that hand and arm. Many hitters often neglect the bottom hand, as it seems less essential to swinging hard. The end result is a weak bottom-hand and a long, looping swing that pitchers can easily exploit.

He also in lessons calls it "THE GUIDE" and warns about pulling with it:

One thing to look out for: a lot of hitters will be able to generate power and pull the ball to their strong side

(During bottom hand only swings ^^^)

 

[jbooth]

I think most of us agree that you dont push the bat around.

The one place I think you do push the bat is when you release your wrists. The leverage of the wrist and your index finger of the top hand push along with the whip.

I hear you dont pull the bat from some members of this site??? If your not pushing it, and not pulling it then that means you just hold on and rotating

I think swinging a bat is a combination of pushing and pulling.

Lets start the swing from stride out, toe touch.
Hip/Big toe and pad of back foot, push to start the swing (Elvis Move)
The back hip grabs the skin from the waist up and pulls the upper body around
The upper body grabs the shoulders and arms and they start to get pulled around.
The arms are locked to maintain the box until it starts to turn the corner, then the whip starts with the arms,hands, and wrists to impact. That whip is a pull
The wrists and index finger of the top hand push the bat into impact along with the whip.

And of course you do this off a firm planted straight front leg.
Some even roll the front foot over in the swing.
All this gives you extension if done in the right order.


That is how I see it, its my story and I am sticking to it.


Straightleg

I tell students not to pull or push, but what I mean by that is;

I don't want them to disconnect the hands/handle from the armpit. Pull or push to me, means that you disconnected and pulled or pushed the bat at the ball.

I emphasize keeping the hands back and throwing the barrel around the hands.

Part of throwing the barrel around the hands means to use BOTH hands, and I agree that using the bottom three fingers of the bottom hand is a good thing. Ted Williams talked about that, but I wouldn't call the use of the fingers a pull. I call it a squeeze. But, I think we're talking about the same thing.

The hands torque the handle by applying force in opposite directions. It is done by simultaneous ulnar deviation of both wrists, and as MTS states; the bottom hand also supinates a little bit.

The crucial thing, is to make sure the throw, or snap etc is timed with the body rotation. You can't throw too soon, or too late. And, the throw is not after a pull or push away from the armpit. You throw, or "turn the barrel" from the armpit.

 

[HYP]

Cal warns against neglecting the bottom hand:


He also in lessons calls it "THE GUIDE" and warns about pulling with it:

(During bottom hand only swings ^^^)

Huh, sounds familiar. Exactly right. How can you supply power with it and use it as the guide hand?

 

[straightleg]

Reverse Hand Swing 2010 02 14 14 00 24 - YouTube


Casey and I made this her sophmore year in highschool. We are working her lead arm.
What power is generated to get this bat through the zone with her lead arm only?


I think there is a good barrell path in this swing.

Too much top hand force allot of times will make a hitter dump the bat head over top the lead shoulder.




SL

 

[RichK]

Reverse Hand Swing 2010 02 14 14 00 24 - YouTube


Casey and I made this her sophmore year in highschool. We are working her lead arm.
What power is generated to get this bat through the zone with her lead arm only?


I think there is a good barrell path in this swing.

Too much top hand force allot of times will make a hitter dump the bat head over top the lead shoulder.


SL

SL, this perplexed me for a minute, then I played with it a bit.

Power is generated where it always is, right? By the body. I don't think anyone has pointed to the hands (or arms for that matter) as a power source.

More than ever, this video points to the lead hand/arm as a *guide*, I think. When you turn the rear hand over in the reverse hand drill, what is happening as I play with it is that you are guaranteeing a back hand/arm-driven barrel turn. You are literally pre-setting a mechanism that executes a really strong hand-driven barrel turn. The hands turn the barrel and the elbow slots (even though the rear hand itself isn't traditionally "holding" the barrel). That fact is why, as you say, the barrel path looks good. The drill builds in a great barrel turn and thus a solid barrel path -- even if that wasn't its intent : >

My two cents. Others may disagree. I'm learning a lot, this is a good discussion

 

[redhotcoach]

Rich you move up a spot from the first time it went around.
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/2388-reverse-hand-drill.html

 

[Lenski]

SL, this perplexed me for a minute, then I played with it a bit.

Power is generated where it always is, right? By the body. I don't think anyone has pointed to the hands (or arms for that matter) as a power source.

More than ever, this video points to the lead hand/arm as a *guide*, I think. When you turn the rear hand over in the reverse hand drill, what is happening as I play with it is that you are guaranteeing a back hand/arm-driven barrel turn. You are literally pre-setting a mechanism that executes a really strong hand-driven barrel turn. The hands turn the barrel and the elbow slots (even though the rear hand itself isn't traditionally "holding" the barrel). That fact is why, as you say, the barrel path looks good. The drill builds in a great barrel turn and thus a solid barrel path -- even if that wasn't its intent : >

My two cents. Others may disagree. I'm learning a lot, this is a good discussion

The video does not point to the lead arm/hand as a guide. As the front arm is performing work in the form of a pull, the trail hand makes the adjustments necessary to make contact, using the bottom/lead hand as the pivot point. The top hand is the guide, the front arm and the rotation of the body provide the pull.

Len

 

[Lenski]

Huh, sounds familiar. Exactly right. How can you supply power with it and use it as the guide hand?

Actually, the top hand is the guide. It determines the ultimate path of the bat using the bottom hand as a pivot point as the front arm supplies power in the form of a pull.

Len