Pointing thumb to direct pitch????

[CoachYoYo]

First post, long time reader, so thanks to everyone, as I have learned just about everything I know from this site. Especially when it comes to pitching.

Anyway, my DD has been invited to play on a u10 TB team. Probably not as a pitcher initially, but by spring, it is entirely possible.

I was talking pitching and IR with HC and he was very receptive and admits he is by no means an expert and relies on his pitchers having their own PC or instruction. He does have some ex D1 college pitchers helping out, but states that he has no intention of going against or changing any pitchers outside instruction. So far so good.

He stated that IR should be done before release and the thumb should be used to point in the direction the ball goes. If the thumb is pointing inside the ball will go inside, etc...He thinks that stopping the writs/forearm rotation and the pointing of the thumb will result in better accuracy and is easier to learn then trying to time the release with continued IR.

Seems to make sense from a short term accuracy perspective, but long term, just doesn't seem right. What are your thoughts and what is my rebuttal? I told him I was going to ask here and he is looking forward the response.

Thanks.

 

[BoardMember]

First post, long time reader, so thanks to everyone, as I have learned just about everything I know from this site. Especially when it comes to pitching.

Anyway, my DD has been invited to play on a u10 TB team. Probably not as a pitcher initially, but by spring, it is entirely possible.

I was talking pitching and IR with HC and he was very receptive and admits he is by no means an expert and relies on his pitchers having their own PC or instruction. He does have some ex D1 college pitchers helping out, but states that he has no intention of going against or changing any pitchers outside instruction. So far so good.

He stated that IR should be done before release and the thumb should be used to point in the direction the ball goes. If the thumb is pointing inside the ball will go inside, etc...He thinks that stopping the writs/forearm rotation and the pointing of the thumb will result in better accuracy and is easier to learn then trying to time the release with continued IR.

Seems to make sense from a short term accuracy perspective, but long term, just doesn't seem right. What are your thoughts and what is my rebuttal? I told him I was going to ask here and he is looking forward the response.

Thanks.

Short answer from me is.......IMO this becomes MORE true for older pitchers.......When the thumb and middle finger are able to be more directly opposite each other on the ball. At younger ages, the thumb usually rests more to the side of the ball with more fingers in contact for grip. If then the thumb is facing foward at release, and is not directly opposite the middle finger, the hand would be on the outside of the ball at release.............Causing every pitch to turn over toward the outside........

That's my experience..........

 

[Jojo]

Short answer from me is.......IMO this becomes MORE true for older pitchers.......When the thumb and middle finger are able to be more directly opposite each other on the ball. At younger ages, the thumb usually rests more to the side of the ball with more fingers in contact for grip. If then the thumb is facing foward at release, and is not directly opposite the middle finger, the hand would be on the outside of the ball at release.............Causing every pitch to turn over toward the outside........

That's my experience..........

I try to use the thumb guide to help my little as well, and I have to consistently check grips because I agree the younger ones do tend to lay their thumb over closer to the index finger.

 

[sluggers]

He stated that IR should be done before release and the thumb should be used to point in the direction the ball goes....He thinks that stopping the wrist/forearm rotation and the pointing of the thumb will result in better accuracy

This is the craziest stuff I've heard...

and is easier to learn then trying to time the release with continued IR

Now it is all clear to me...teach them how to throw incorrectly because it is too hard to teach someone how to do it the right way.

 

[CoachYoYo]

OK, so I think I understand what everyone is saying (thank you), but I am a little dense sometimes and need it spelled out.

If the thumb is aligned directly opposite the middle finger, then at release the thumb will be pointing where the ball goes. However, purposefully stopping or inhibiting IR is a bad idea.

It seems to me that specifically trying to point the thumb where you want the ball to go will probably inhibit good IR??? Yes?

 

[sluggers]

It seems to me that specifically trying to point the thumb where you want the ball to go will probably inhibit good IR??? Yes?

Yes...but, think about what he is saying.

A pitcher releases at say 40 feet from the plate. The plate is 17 inches wide. The angular difference between throwing a ball outside and throwing a ball inside is 1.4 degrees. The hand at release is going 45 to 55 MPH (depending upon the age of the girl). The coach is suggesting that you tell the girl, "Oh, and during the tenth of a second when you release the ball, remember to rotate the horizontal position of the thumb by .25 degrees at release."

There is only one way to improve a pitcher's accuracy: She has to throw the ball over and over and over again, day after day, week after week, month after month. There are ways to make this more fun and interesting. But, there aren't any shortcuts.

 

[CoachYoYo]

"Oh, and during the tenth of a second when you release the ball, remember to rotate the horizontal position of the thumb by .25 degrees at release."

Well now that you put it that way, it does sound silly. I think that that thought process was coming from the bowling hello elbow camp they come from. I wasn't buying it, but I don't know enough to argue it.

I read everything here and understand most of it, I just can't always debate the details.

Thanks for the help. Now I just need to find a PC that doesn't teach hello elbow.

 

[Sparky Guy]

He thinks that stopping the writs/forearm rotation and the pointing of the thumb will result in better accuracy and is easier to learn then trying to time the release with continued IR.

Here is something to try yourself. Move your arm in a full circle like in a pitching motion as fast as you can. Now stop your arm completely at the 6:00 position from full speed to stop without trying to slow down. Do this 100 times consecutively without a break and let us know how your muscles feel when your done. See how your shoulder feels. Never mind trying to accurately throw a ball.

 

[nanotech14]

I see your from Connecticut, there is PC named Carley that comes on to the site,I think she is from the New York city area,I think so dont hold me to it.Also I dont know how close you are to there.But she is in line with the IR.She has a lot of good info IMO.Seems like a good place to start if your looking for a PC. Good Luck to your daughter.

 

[curiousgeorge]

Well now that you put it that way, it does sound silly. I think that that thought process was coming from the bowling hello elbow camp they come from. I wasn't buying it, but I don't know enough to argue it.

I read everything here and understand most of it, I just can't always debate the details.

Thanks for the help. Now I just need to find a PC that doesn't teach hello elbow.

Another option from what nanotech said, I know Hilhouse does lessons in Maine about once per month. He has told me students come from all over New England when he's there. If it's like his Dallas location, there's probably a nearby hotel that offers a deal for his lessons.

cg