Pitching around the hip

[BLB]

Perhaps it would help to answer certain questions pertaining to hip rotation when studying that aspect of pitching mechanics. Do all elite pitchers have the same hip angle at release? When does the hip initiate its first phase of rotation or hip thrust? Is the final angle of rotation at the release point linked to the amount of initial hip thrust? Does this rotation stop at any time before release? When does the second phase of hip rotation occur and is this phase simply a follow-through or does it really contribute to arm whip?

 

[Mark H]

Excellent framing of the questions for discussions. I look forward to the pitching gurus weighing in.

 

[ifubuildit]

Perhaps it would help to answer certain questions pertaining to hip rotation when studying that aspect of pitching mechanics. Do all elite pitchers have the same hip angle at release?

Based on what I have studied and seen I would say the majority are in the 45 - 52 degree range when planting the stride foot.

When does the hip initiate its first phase of rotation or hip thrust?

When the pitcher is striding out and opening up.

Is the final angle of rotation at the release point linked to the amount of initial hip thrust?

Assuming your talking about hip rotation it could be, dependent on a couple of variables. Did the pitcher overstride and come off the power line loosing balance and restricting hip rotation? Did she over rotate her front hip as she opened? (Landed with the front foot at a 90 degree angle instead of 30-45) This could prevent the hip from rotation into the correct position for release.

Does this rotation stop at any time before release?

IMO it should stop when the firm stride leg plants.

When does the second phase of hip rotation occur and is this phase simply a follow-through or does it really contribute to arm whip?

[/QUOTE]

Yes and No

Dana

 

[Bruce_W]

This thread has cuaght my interest so here are my opinions.

Do all elite pitchers have the same hip angle at release?

No but...... most are pretty close. I know of at least one that isn't.

When does the hip initiate its first phase of rotation or hip thrust?

By this we are looking for "closing rotation" right? If so then it is at 12 o'clock, top of the circle.

Is the final angle of rotation at the release point linked to the amount of initial hip thrust?

Not sure what this means.

Does this rotation stop at any time before release?

Yes.

When does the second phase of hip rotation occur and is this phase simply a follow-through or does it really contribute to arm whip?

After the ball is gone and many top pitchers actually OPEN MORE during their follow through. It is very deceiving when watching live. Some close more, either way I don't think it contributes anything to the whip.

I doubt the lady, whose name Hal will recall for, me mis-measured the joint movements in her study.

Mark, I was talking about Scarborough/Ueno not the pitchers they used in the study.

 

[Mark H]

OK. Can't argue with your observations above.

 

[ifubuildit]

Olympic Study contributors.

Sherry L. Werner, PhD
Human Performance Laboratory
Steadman-Hawkins Sports Medicine Foundation


Tricia A. Murray
Musculoskeletal Modeling Unit
Steadman-Hawkins Sports Medicine Foundation


Morris Levy, MS
Biomechanics Laboratory
Oregon State University


Sarah L. Smith, PhD
Sport Science and Technology Division
United States Olympic Committee


Kevin D. Plancher, MD, MS
Montefiore Medical Center
The University Hospital for the Albert Einstein College of Medicine


Richard J. Hawkins, MD, FRCSC
Department of Orthopedics
University of Colorado
Steadman-Hawkins Clinic

 

[Mark H]

There you go. Werner. That's the name I was reaching for.

 

[halskinner]

This thread has cuaght my interest so here are my opinions.



No but...... most are pretty close. I know of at least one that isn't.




By this we are looking for "closing rotation" right? If so then it is at 12 o'clock, top of the circle.



Not sure what this means.




Yes.



After the ball is gone and many top pitchers actually OPEN MORE during their follow through. It is very deceiving when watching live. Some close more, either way I don't think it contributes anything to the whip.



Mark, I was talking about Scarborough/Ueno not the pitchers they used in the study.

OK. I hate to start sounding like I am harping on this or picking nits or anything of the such.

However, I hope you all realize that these can be quite different dependant on the exact pitch they are throwing and if they exaggerate their motions for a little more ball movement. Example; The release point for a curveball can be different, depending on how it is gripped and thrown. They might get fairly closed OR they might close their hips a great deal more.

Another example; Riseball. An open style pitcher, throwing a cut rise, might release it at the back hip, or at a point between the hips. If she is throwing a bent fingered rise, the release point will be well forward of those two points and if the pitcher drops the throwing shoulder at release, the release point might even be slightly ahead of that.

Even the Olympic study simply described the pitch as being 'A riseball'. I assume the cut rise but I, again, have to ask, "Which one????"

 

[ifubuildit]

Hal

I agree with you. I just tried to generalize my response on these to open the dialog.

Dana

 

[StinkyK]

My next statement is not to offen anyone and is just anobservation but it seems to me that both of these pitchers shoulders and hips are the same width and seem to allow them to close earlier and the hip to not interfere with the hand passing "by/through" prior to release. Again not a scientific statement but it seemed that my DD was able close early prior to puberty with narrow hips and not get penalized with a bad pitch but as she is a bit older now and her hips are maturing she has to stay open longer to clear them or if she does close early and has to get around her hip she is penalized with a bad pitch (out to the right) (right handed pitcher) Thoughts?