New video same old problems

[mothgirl]

Looking for critique thank you!

Link below she only throws one pitch (I tried to trim the end off I'm not good with the editing yet)

https://www.coachseye.com/v/WFsb

http://youtu.be/iDO7kAQjW_M

http://youtu.be/W8QRlMb7PHk




For a very long time my dd has been focused mostly on not muscling/staying loose and changing over from the HE mechanics she was taught, to throwing with whip, and I/R. She's whipping the ball pretty good (I still see where she needs to improve. At release she doesn't stay loaded and has a slow rollover instead of a quick snap most of the time) but we are moving on to the drive because.. well, because we have too. I'm comfortable teaching the whip, I'm not so comfortable teaching the drive, I have, and still am, reading drive mechanics. Its not that I don't know what she should be doing its that I'm not good at teaching it, and sometimes I'm kind of a bitch, cuz I don't understand why it's so hard. I've tried it, I can do it, I get it, why can she? (I'm not saying it easy! It's not and I'm no expert, but my kid is horizontally challenged, she only wants to stay vertical! Shes taking baby steps with Javas Push back drill. She won't try the jump back drill with me (I'm gonna ask her PC to introduce it to her Wednesday) she would do the push back drill only after Shannon told her is was good to do. so frustrating that my kid thinks I'm a complete idiot. (She's actually getting better at taking the meager advice I give, and I'm getting better at keeping my mouth shut) anyway I'm going to post a couple videos from the other day, I can see from the video that she's taking a step forward in the push back, instead of the replacement step she should be taking, she does better on the rubber. But we never seem the get to practice with a rubber. I'm working on that. PC has focused on Not opening too soon, I have learned that focusing on that does nothing to help dd fix it? I learned from Java that if my dd will get the lean, overlap, and explosive drive she will fix the opening too soon? So this is what we are trying.....hoping to make progress before January. I'm gonna go back and read a bunch of the drive mechanics stuff now

 

[riseball]

Go back and look at your previous videos. You are making significant progress. It is a marathon not a sprint.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Looking for critique thank you!

Link below she only throws one pitch (I tried to trim the end off I'm not good with the editing yet)

https://www.coachseye.com/v/WFsb

http://youtu.be/iDO7kAQjW_M

http://youtu.be/W8QRlMb7PHk




For a very long time my dd has been focused mostly on not muscling/staying loose and changing over from the HE mechanics she was taught, to throwing with whip, and I/R. She's whipping the ball pretty good (I still see where she needs to improve. At release she doesn't stay loaded and has a slow rollover instead of a quick snap most of the time) but we are moving on to the drive because.. well, because we have too. I'm comfortable teaching the whip, I'm not so comfortable teaching the drive, I have, and still are, reading drive mechanics. Its not that I don't know what she should be doing its that I'm not good at teaching it, and sometimes I'm kind of a bitch, cuz I don't understand why it's so hard. I've tried it, I can do it, I get it, why can she? (I'm not saying it easy! It's not and I'm no expert, but my kid is horizontally challenged, she only wants to stay vertical! Shes taking baby steps with Javas Push back drill. She won't try the jump back drill with me (I'm gonna ask her PC to introduce it to her Wednesday) she would do the push back drill only after Shannon told her is was good to do. (I'm the one that brought the video of the push back drill to Shannon in the first place) so frustrating that my kid thinks I'm a complete idiot. (She's actually getting better at taking the meager advice I give, and I'm getting better at keeping my mouth shut) anyway I'm going to post a couple videos from the other day, I can see from the video that she's taking a step forward in the push back, instead of the replacement step she should be taking, she does better on the rubber. But we never seem the get to practice with a rubber. I'm working on that. PC has focused on Not opening too soon, I have learned that focusing on that does nothing to help dd fix it? I learned from Java that if my dd will get the lean, overlap, and explosive drive she will fix the opening too soon? So this is what we are trying.....hoping to make progress before January. I'm gonna go back and read a bunch of the drive mechanics stuff now

Couple comments/tips
First, changes at the age of your girl will not be easy. What ever movement you are trying to change has been ingrained for a long time.....changes to major muscle movements can take easily 6 months or more and that is if the student is diligent.

Regarding arm whip.....she is almost overachieving with her bent arm. It appears to be taking to much energy straight into her ribs as her upper arm/elbow contact her side. I'd suggest backing off of the amount of bend a bit. I am a proponent of arm whip but there are extremes that are counter productive.

Her landing tilt is way to much. Again, I am a proponent of 8--10 degrees of tilt when the stride foot plants....your DD looks like she
is at 20 degrees or more. It's almost as if she is taking energy toward 2nd base instead of toward home plate. (see pic inserted)
She definitely could use some of Java's drive mechanics. The sprinters split jump that Java posted is a great way for a pitcher to feel getting into the sprinters start.....if you can't convince her to try that then definitely have Shannon suggest it to her. As a side note....I would say it is very common for a DD to not receive well "helpful instruction" from a parent. So you have to trick em somehow. If that means having Joe The Plumber convey the message then do it... Maybe a simple pic and a comparison pic (see pics below) will help.

 

[FastPitchCat]

my DD has taken months to fix her leaning and we're still not there. what my DD does to get more vertical is to detach the drive foot from the pitching rubber earlier (3 o'clock).
this has helped her stay more vertical as what coach rick has described, avoid the excessive lean back.

 

[Ken B]

Tagging on to what Rick said: keep the lower arm loose and allow the whip to occur--don't make it happen.

In the Coaches Eye clip, it looks like she's working on the push back drill. Slow this down and allow the weight transfer to occur and lean to develop. She's executing it so quickly that the intended objective of getting into the sprinter's start position shown in Rick's clip doesn't happen. IMO, I'd suggest a review of the push back and two step videos. After some work, take a new video, then look to see if the excessive rearward lean is still there. I have a hunch than an improved drive will have a positive effect on her rearward lean without otherwise addressing it.

Otherwise, as riseball mentioned, she's really making strides!

 

[Ken B]

"New video, same old problem..." Kinda like my attention span!

So sorry! My ADD kicked in and I responded after watching the video only--totally missing that you'd already pretty much nailed the key issues! Good call to a degree on addressing opening too early with an improved drive. Often, fixing one thing affects another. If she feels a need to get open, there still might be the need for cue to help deemphasize that, but I'd start with refining the pushback, getting the lean, then looking at things down stream later.

You mentioned the lack of load, rollover and a quick snap. These are things I would suggest letting happen with a loose lower arm, rather than trying to make them happen. This includes follow through--allow it to happen--don't force palm down any more than you'd force the HE. An emphasis can be added to pulling the ball with a mental picture of palm to sky, but the key is whip, which is a very loose feel. Another cue is the feel of the ball hanging at the end of a loose arm circle. Although you might think this would result in a straight arm, fizzucks makes the lower arm/ball lag behind the upper arm

Glad you have a good PC who is open to teaching this stuff! I'm still on the hunt for someone nearby for my DD!

 

[mothgirl]

Thank you all so much I love this site!

Rick- the pics help! Thank you! PC has pointed out these same things, but sometimes it takes a few hundred times to get it thru our thick skulls!

Her arm bend- I'm hoping that working on the lean will help to lengthen the arm from 3-12 oclock I think if she can work on lean forward and relaxing that arm while throwing them forward. If she's leaning more forward it should put her arms in a better position?

I know her age (14) puts her at a disadvantage for learning new stuff but I'm not discouraged by that she's only been pitching for a short time 15months and in that time she made great progress,. The lean has been a problem from day one in part because she was coming off two broken ankles and feet when she started pitching last June. She was super weak everywhere specially in the ankles! I'm hopeful with Shannon's help we can get her leaning more forward I should have realized it sooner that this needs to be our main focus!

Ken-
We will revisit Javas videos for the 2 step and push back, and I'm going to get Shannon to introduce the jump back to her. I believe a more forward lean will fix the lean back at the end too.

 

[mothgirl]

Go back and look at your previous videos. You are making significant progress. It is a marathon not a sprint.

Thanks for noticing! I'll be sure to let her know! I do see her progress and I'm happy she's making progress I just want it to be faster! But I'll take baby steps! Thanks!

 

[mothgirl]

Couple comments/tips
First, changes at the age of your girl will not be easy. What ever movement you are trying to change has been ingrained for a long time.....changes to major muscle movements can take easily 6 months or more and that is if the student is diligent.

Regarding arm whip.....she is almost overachieving with her bent arm. It appears to be taking to much energy straight into her ribs as her upper arm/elbow contact her side. I'd suggest backing off of the amount of bend a bit. I am a proponent of arm whip but there are extremes that are counter productive.

Her landing tilt is way to much. Again, I am a proponent of 8--10 degrees of tilt when the stride foot plants....your DD looks like she
is at 20 degrees or more. It's almost as if she is taking energy toward 2nd base instead of toward home plate. (see pic inserted)
She definitely could use some of Java's drive mechanics. The sprinters split jump that Java posted is a great way for a pitcher to feel getting into the sprinters start.....if you can't convince her to try that then definitely have Shannon suggest it to her. As a side note....I would say it is very common for a DD to not receive well "helpful instruction" from a parent. So you have to trick em somehow. If that means having Joe The Plumber convey the message then do it... Maybe a simple pic and a comparison pic (see pics below) will help.

View attachment 9088View attachment 9089View attachment 9090

Again Loved your comments and pics, thank you.

Showed dd the pics and I showed her some video of pitchers slo mo with there lean compared to hers in coaches eye. (I used a video that she thought she was doing a really good forward lean, I had her pick it out.) when she saw the video she didn't say much. Then I told her that Rick Pauly said that she would have a hard time fixing it at her age, and maybe we just move on. She asked me if it was something that would hurt her chances of pitching in collage, I was honest and told her yes.

She said and I quote "I'm gonna fix it just to show him I can. (add finger snap and head shake) If I have to fall on my face to learn it, then I'm gonna fall on my face". I laughed cuz the way she said it, I couldn't help it.

Then tonight at practice I said Nothing, No words to her about her drive or lean or anything else! except, then I saw it, she was freaking leaning forward over her front toe and knee! She wasn't even doing the push back drill she was pitching to a batter. Man that made me happy! Just to know that she's capable! I was starting to think she just couldn't do it, that her body wouldn't let her.
Now it wasn't like a super lean but for her! It was big! I didn't get it on video I think I was just kinda stunned that after a year of Shannon telling her at every freaking lesson to get forward, lean forward, she tried every drill she could think of to help her get there and all it took was somebody telling her she couldn't do it. ...huh!

So I opened my mouth and said "I see your lean, nice Rose". The lean went away the next pitch

She did get it back a few times, it was inconsistent, but idk! She can do it! And she trying, to a batter!

 

[Ken B]

I know her age (14) puts her at a disadvantage for learning new stuff...

Generally, I'd call this an advantage. Younger kids often have a lack of body awareness and have a difficult time feeling the cues as stated. The older kids seem to "get it" more often.