My DS Swing... are boys allowed in here too?

[RookKev]

Since we work closely together and my limited knowledge is teaching both kids, I think they are similar in their swings...but then again, maybe not. Funny how two kids taught the same stuff, have different issues.






If we say the swing is the swing, then softball vs baseball shouldn't matter.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

A good example of 'bat drag' and failure to establish a properly connected swing ....

Swing has other issues ... including poor overall sequence, stepping out, etc.

p.s.
Glad you posted this …. Boys don’t necessarily have a better swing because they are boys. They have to deal with a lot of the same issues.

 

[RookKev]

He is very aware of his stepping out. We are working on it, but, it's tough to fight it off as he tends to get hit at least once very game. It's weird, because he's willing to take a hit, to get on base...but, it is also promoting his being a tad afraid, and stepping out.

I've mainly been focusing on that forwards stride and getting those hips turning. We have talked and worked through the sequence of the stride and using that forwards motion to elongate his separation (pulling the rubber band) with his hands. I've asked him to try and move the hands back and point the handle of the bat at the catcher. As I've been reading here, the swing starts at the ground up, and we've been trying... Although it's still a work in progress, he is just a few days from turning 10 in this video... And tiny like my daughter. He's like 4'-04" and around 60 lbs. For both of my children, most of the force they generate will come from mechanics, not muscle/mass/length. (that ball makes it over second base in this video...which was a first for him, and he was quite excited about it, as he could see his hips finally becoming a part of his swing).

Both of them were a part of the posting of videos and are asking, anyone pst anything? They are each anxious to start some drills.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Personally I believe your daughter’s swing is in much better shape. I could see her swing becoming very productive in relatively short order. Your son on the other hand isn’t in as fortunate a situation IMO.

Not uncommon for a kid to step out with their lead foot (“stepping in the bucket”) because they are scared. What can happen, or what happens to many kids that do this for too long, is that they learn to power their swing with this mechanic … basically initiating their swing sequence by pulling with the lead shoulder and head. Once this sets in, it can be a hard habit to break … and you can begin to see a difference between “tee swings” and “game swings” that you will fight to overcome. That’s when it can become frustrating for the kid, parent and hitting instructor.

I truly believe that you have been focusing on a “forward stride” … but he’s doing this linearly without coiling. There is no “Forward-by-Coiling” in your son's swing.

I see the forced hip rotation you are speaking of … but it is out of sequence … and it is the reason he never connects his arms properly to his body’s rotation.

IMO the ‘stride’ is an issue. There is no Coil-Stretch-Swing sequence here.

As Boardmember will say … “there is no stride” in a HLBB swing. Well, there is a stride, but it is generated, or fueled, by coiling … Forward-by-Coiling.

As an aside ... you mentioned having the knob of the bat point at the catcher ……. You are describing the hand set …. And IMO you want that more towards the catcher’s “feet”, which isn’t the case here.

The swing is “ground up”, but the sequence does not start from the ground. The sequence begins in the rear hip area ... has the rear hip coiling into a resistive rear leg ... the rear leg will be felt to twist ... the rear foot will feel this, receive and respond by applying pressure that 'would' move the rear foot clockwise for a RH hitter (… your son is a LH hitter, so the pressure would be counterclockwise for him) if the rear foot were not on the ground ... the rear leg will then 'untwist' or 'uncoil' and fuel hip/torso rotational movement. The sequence starts in the rear hip area, travels to the rear foot & ground, and returns back up the rear leg to the rear hip.

There is a major issue with your son’s swing initiation. He is not using the lower body to capture transition … the very first movement of the barrel into its swing arc … and this is key to developing a good swing. I can’t under state the importance of that. But before we get there, you'll want to clean up the basic sequence.

You might read up on “the move”. Learn that the rear leg is not simply loaded linearly, but rotationally ... the rear 'leg' will actually 'twist' and 'untwist' ... or basically 'coil' and 'uncoil'. The rear 'leg', in a sense, is either 'coiling' or 'uncoiling'.

Then begin by learning the basic sequence of Coil-Stretch-Swing. Consider reading the following post and working on capturing the basics of a Coil-Stretch-Swing sequence.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/5027-megan-1-tee.html#post50051

 

[softballphreak]

You can try starting with an open stance so he has to step inward to get to toe touch.

 

[RookKev]

Does he attempt to coil? It think his stepping into the bucket looks like it might be gobbling up his coil... His hands look like they are moving back into that 'attempt' at coiling. It could be an illusion and a parent's misconception....

1. He will do some walk through tee work. That should help encourage the directly forward path.
2. He will learn the coil. Pretty much just gonna go over Megan's very intial setup walk through you gave her in like post #8 or so.... incorporating the stick at the waist coil/--->stride(stretch)? drill.
3. He will do some inverted top hand, to help with the dropping hands too quickly.

Things that I want to use to encourage him, but want to check with you all. Does his weight shift look fair? He seems to do a good job of striding forwards, but in his swing, he is not lunging to the ball. He gets that bit of air developing under his back foot, but has a nice firm front side (albeit open to first). He also has kept he head down to the ball all the way into contact, which I am encouraged that he hasn't slipped all the way to the issue of pulling open for all of his power, and taking his head off the ball in doing so. You should see some T work videos here soon.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Does he attempt to coil? It think his stepping into the bucket looks like it might be gobbling up his coil...

The sequence should begin with a cocking of the rear hip, and then having the coiling motion move his COM (center of mass) forward.

I like your description of the "stepping in the bucket" action "gobbling up his coil". Yes ... this action destroys his ability to move forward-by-coiling.

Here is your daughter ... doing a much better job in this area of the swing. Much more powerful move.

His hands look like they are moving back into that 'attempt' at coiling. It could be an illusion and a parent's misconception....

His hands do move back ... but his rear upper arm lowers. He is not building 'stretch'. The sequence begins by cocking the rear hip and then simultaneously coiling and stretching. Your son's stretch is virtually absent. He has no 'stretch'.

The 'stretch' is key ... the feeling will be, that as the lower body moves forward-by-coiling, that the hands will move backwards in a rotational sense ... sort of seeking balance during the Fwd-by-Coiling ... and this will lead to a feel of the upper body rotating snuggly in preparation for the lower body opening in the opposite direction, and hence the creation of a powerful setup is established for torquing the body (as the lower body rotates open in the opposite direction that the upper body rotated slightly during the fwd-by-coiling action). This ability to obtain 'stretch' will come a whole lot easier to your son if he raises his rear upper arm, instead of lowers it, as part of the creation of 'stretch'.

You also commented on "lunging". I want to point out, that if your son learns to "uncoil" into foot plant, then there will be no "lunging" issue. Coil/Uncoil ... there will be no lunge.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

3. He will do some inverted top hand, to help with the dropping hands too quickly.

The issue of 'connection' will be cleared up once he learns to 'stretch' while moving 'foward-by-coiling', at which point he will perform an action that will have the feel of "twisting his gut" as he moves into front heel-plant ... and this twisting of the gut action, when timed as the first action to capture transition of the barrel, will correct this issue.

The issue is that your son's sequence is poor and that he has an over focus on striding. There really should be zero thought of striding ..... the stride is just a 'result' .... a 'result' of 'forward-by-coiling'.

 

[RookKev]

Ok, DS had a game last night get rained out. However, in the pitching I gave him prior to the game, we talked about approach a tad. I asked him to simply remove his stride for now. Plant that front foot in the ground. If he wants to stride, he can, but he had better bring it directly forwards. I pitch him a few pitches and some of the other coaches look over at me, with eyes open wide. He was ripping line drives. DS decided if I need to coil, then I'm going to do it. He probably took the coil a bit too far, but I'm okay with that during the muscle/mental changing phase. I warned him too much will slow him down in his timing a bit, so be a bit careful. I think he found a comfortable spot for that quick practice session.

Ultimately, the good side is he was feeling and seeing immediate results. I think he was excited about the potential that he is building. He did say he wants to wait til his baseball season is over, and take a 'small' break until he begins his real swing work. So...let's see how things go. I hope to be able to revisit this before too long passes.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sounds productive RookKev. Don't be surprised if the stride moves slightly inward prior to having the front foot plant ... much like your daughter's forward-by-coiling based stride ... and if that happens, then smile and let him rip.