More evidence that the sacrifice bunt is a waste

[Ken Krause]

Ken, we seldom disagree but on this we do. You are referencing charts of MLB versus what armature players are capable of. IMO, not even AA or AAA players in baseball can compare with the defensive abilities of MLB players. Also, you have to keep in mind that the sac bunt is seldom attempted by anyone other than a pitcher. Therefore, the leadoff hitter is then at bat for the attempt at an RBI. If unsuccessful, the #2 batter in the lineup. I can't remember the last time I saw a position player attempt a sac bunt in MLB. In softball, typically, you have numerous scenarios including the #2 bunting to set up the rbi for the #3 or #4. Also, I can't statistically prove it but I'd guess that somewhere around 30-40% of the time, the runer is safe at first. I seldom see the fielder throw to second in amature or high school softball. I like the sac bunt and in both baseball and softball used it with a high degree of success. Of couse I'd like to have 2nd base stolen instead of having to bunt a runner over and tried, for the most part, to do that option first. Still, at the amature and high school level, if you can get that runner on with your big guns coming up, I like my chances of scoring. Factor in the option to switch off by showing bunt and then slapping or swinging away and I think you can add a new dimension to the game. JMHO!

A lot of baseball people think like you do, actually. Not as much as softball, but there are many who insist you have to play "small ball" in order to win, especially in October.

I think we have to make sure we're talking about the same thing. If I read you correctly you're talking about how many times the hitters lays the bunt down successfully and moves the runner to second. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how many times the team successfully sac bunts and then the run scores.

In my observations, even at the HS level, teams are successful scoring about one out of four times after a sacrifice bunt. If that's the case, you've basically given your team a handicap, because you have one less inning to work with than your opponent who doesn't bunt (3 outs - 1 inning).

But again, that's just speculation on my part. Hope some folks will join me in tracking what actually happens in the games they watch on TV or attend live. Mark down every sac bunt (not a bunt for hit, but a square around, give yourself up bunt) and whether the runner who was sacrificed over scores. I think it will be interesting to see if it works as well as many softball people think.

 

[chinamigarden]

I'm not a big fan of the bunt, but sometimes a game situation might call for it, if you have a weaker hitter up you might want her to bunt to at least create a productive out. Especially if you are down by 1 or tied and playing for 1 run makes sense.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I'm not a big fan of the bunt, but sometimes a game situation might call for it, if you have a weaker hitter up you might want her to bunt to at least create a productive out. Especially if you are down by 1 or tied and playing for 1 run makes sense.

I agree with you that the bunt is not a waste. But disagree that it is for the weaker hitters. It is for the best, and all hitters. It is starts the chain of progression to hitting. My DD(10U) has always been best(among) at everything on all her teams so far, except HR hitting. I have stayed on bunting. Just like I did with throwing, 2 years. Of course she has always hit in top 4...She gets two swings, or fouls...then its time to either put a bunt down, then the fake is valid. Now she has choice if she can draw corners in, then right hand slap,(Chop) at it to just drop it at the grass without getting a strike called...But I am just now getting the pressure to have her learn and trying to get a swing.

Team USA lost to Japan this year, because of not all hitters except the catcher could lay done the bunt, to bad she wasn't fast enough to run it out. I'll bet the farm, that EVERY player on Team Japan, can lay down the bunt, and run it out !

Gold Medal Game: USA vs Japan

 

[JAD]

We base our decision on using the sacrifice bunt on the situation. Is it a tight game where one run may win it? How fast is the base runner on 1st. How good a contact hitter is the batter? How good a bunter is the batter? How good is the other teams pitcher? How good is the others teams catcher? What are the chances for a wild pitch or passed ball? Is the 3rd baseman playing behind the bag? How deep is the 1st baseman?

The use of a sacrifice bunt diminishes as the girls get older.

 

[Perfect Circle]

We base our decision on using the sacrifice bunt on the situation. Is it a tight game where one run may win it? How fast is the base runner on 1st. How good a contact hitter is the batter? How good a bunter is the batter? How good is the other teams pitcher? How good is the others teams catcher? What are the chances for a wild pitch or passed ball? Is the 3rd baseman playing behind the bag? How deep is the 1st baseman?

The use of a sacrifice bunt diminishes as the girls get older.

Like the formula !!! If you watch the game above, You'll see that USA only got into overtime, because of the sac bunt. I think they are older.. :{))

 

[chinamigarden]

I agree with you that the bunt is not a waste. But disagree that it is for the weaker hitters. It is for the best, and all hitters. It is starts the chain of progression to hitting. My DD(10U) has always been best(among) at everything on all her teams so far, except HR hitting. I have stayed on bunting. Just like I did with throwing, 2 years. Of course she has always hit in top 4...She gets two swings, or fouls...then its time to either put a bunt down, then the fake is valid. Now she has choice if she can draw corners in, then right hand slap,(Chop) at it to just drop it at the grass without getting a strike called...But I am just now getting the pressure to have her learn and trying to get a swing.

Team USA lost to Japan this year, because of not all hitters except the catcher could lay done the bunt, to bad she wasn't fast enough to run it out. I'll bet the farm, that EVERY player on Team Japan, can lay down the bunt, and run it out !

Gold Medal Game: USA vs Japan

I'm talking situational, not skill set. Every batter should know how to bunt, but I would not ask every batter to bunt. A girl who is hitting over 400 or with a slugging percentage north of 800 should be swinging away and not bunting.

 

[Perfect Circle]

I'm talking situational, not skill set. Every batter should know how to bunt, but I would not ask every batter to bunt. A girl who is hitting over 400 or with a slugging percentage north of 800 should be swinging away and not bunting.

I got you...and I'm talking situational. When your getting ready to get beat, you better do what it takes. Tell them to lay up the homeruns in the first couple of innings so everyone can relax... truth is, its just luck. Bunting is the hardest thing to teach... I seen DD start out hating it ...to loving & preferring it. Of course I just started this week on making her a hitter, bought the bat, and coach, but we will still working on bunting before any swinging in practices.

 

[Ken Krause]

Tournament we were in a couple of weeks ago. Opponents sac bunted a runner from first to second with nobody out three times. None of those runners scored.

How about you guys? Been keeping track? Have you seen more teams have success moving the runner over while giving up an out?

 

[Atlantabell]

Tournament we were in a couple of weeks ago. Opponents sac bunted a runner from first to second with nobody out three times. None of those runners scored.

How about you guys? Been keeping track? Have you seen more teams have success moving the runner over while giving up an out?

I would agree except that I think that if you use the sacrifice bunt with more aggressive base running it can set up a situation where the run does score. I also think that it is more about predictability than any thing else. Of course, you have to have the speed on the bases and smart base runners to make it work.

I think your point is that we should not resort to that as much as we do and that we have to be creative about when and how to use it.