Mask or No Mask

[Cobb_of_Fury]

I think you have to conclude that the hunter who can kill a lion or tiger with his bare hands has demonstrated greater skills than any of the other hunters and I would pick this hunter over those who hide behind spears or guns or face masks.

Not sure if stupidity is a skill - why would a "hunter" not use superior tools at hand rather than risk injury going "Against the lion" Un protected?

Have we tortured that metaphor enough?

 

[MNDad]

I’ve never been able to find any data indicating the rate of facial injuries from being hit by batted balls is increasing. I’ve seen studies breaking down injuries by sport and area of the body, but none that include how the injury occurred. It’s definitely possible with hotter bats, pitchers moved back and more skilled hitters. We also have more skilled fielders though so without definitive data it’s pure speculation the injuries are increasing. Facial injuries are serious business, but nobody knows how masks will stand up to extreme shots. They’ll definitely absorb some of the impact, but will it be enough to prevent a busted face or shattered teeth? Maybe, again with no studies or data we just don’t know.

The biggest scare tactic is that catastrophic injury is a certainty if you’re hit in the face without a mask. Again, where’s the data? Yes, it’s possible, but it’s also possible (likely?) they’ll just get a nice lump or a mild concussion. Concussions are very serious, but masks offer little to no protection against them. If we truly want to eliminate head and facial injuries the discussion should be about mandating helmets which have been tested and proven to be safe. Football, hockey and race car drivers didn’t used to wear helmets either, but the game has changed. We have equipment available that’s proven to be effective, yet no one clamoring for helmets to be mandated. Slow pitch softball pitchers understand the danger and some wear hockey or lacrosse masks. Why are we settling for flimsy little facemasks?

The “proof” given for masks is purely anecdotal. “Suzy got hit so everyone should wear one.” If that’s the case why aren’t we mandating knee, shin, elbow or any other piece of equipment? How is a shattered knee cap any less of a concern than a broken nose? A shot to the face can kill you and the worst you can get is crippled if you get hit ion the knee? If that’s your logic you should be trapped away in a steel bunker. I believe it’s because this isn’t about catastrophic injury at all. Facial injuries affect how pretty a girl is and we can’t handle that. We can be pretty certain masks will prevent black eyes, bloody noses and cuts and bruises. They’re about looks as much as safety. If you read all the posts in this never ending thread you’ll find a couple that mention that very point. If it wasn’t about how are daughters are our princesses we’d be as adamant about mandating masks for boys 12 and under. Different sport, but same field dimensions and similar risk of injuries. Braces sound like a very legit reason. Even so, why don’t baseball parents make their son’s wear masks when they’ve got braces?

If you want your kid to wear masks, go for it. Few will give it a second notice. I’m in no way anti mask. I made DD wear one through 14U. I just want people to get off their high horse and quit demeaning and preaching to other parents. You raise your kid and I’ll raise mine. If your DD happens to hit her in the face and can’t deal with the trauma, tough. There are dozens of ways a kid can hurt another in softball that are far more common and if she can’t handle it she’s in the wrong sport.

 

[ScottyDont]

I am neither pro or anti-mask. However, if you know a a college coach is anti-mask, and your player wears one, and you feel better having her wear one, why would you ever want your kid play for a coach that is anti-mask? You are asking for that person to change their stripes because you have a certain comfort level with a piece of equipment. If that coach said no mask or no play, do you actually want your kid to go there? Players have choices, as do parents, about where they play (yes, even in college, if you are good enough).

In terms of "reduction of the scholarship opportunities", either you are good enough or you are not. The number of players with scholarship opportunities is SMALL. Here are statistics from 2015:

Chances of a high school athlete competing in College Softball (Women)

Number of US High School Softball Players - 373,892
Number of US College Softball Players - 31,406
% of foreign students playing NCAA softball - 0.9%
% of US High School Players competing at any College Level - 8.3%
% of US High School Players competing at NCAA Div I School - 1.6%

The 1.6% represents the number of Div I softball PLAYERS, not the number of Div I scholarships. Not all Div I schools are fully funded with 12 full scholarships (and those are spread out over a roster of 20 to 24 players). At Div 2, there are only 7.2 scholarships, NAIA 10 scholarships, and NJCCA 24 scholarships.

So when people on DFP say "if she can play, the mask makes no difference", they know what they are talking about, because the chances of getting a scholarship to play college ball is VERY SMALL. The argument "the coach did not like my kid because she wears a mask" does not hold water, and is really just a rationalization that your kid is not good enough. The coach did not like your kid because there were BETTER players out there, with or without a mask.

Your numbers are probably sound for ALL softball players. The percentage goes way up if you eliminate the girls who play high school ball and have no interest in playing in college. My daughter's HS team had one senior who ended up pursuing and attaining a college scholarship out of five (DII, if it matters). This coming year, there are two (she's going DI and another one DII) out of five.

Look at any good 18U travel team. Odds are, the majority of the players will be playing in college, with a scholarship. We're not talking about the 373,892 players in high school now, we're talking about probably 1/10 that number or less. Those are the players that we should be talking about, because they're the ones who are actually impacted by the biased coaches who are anti-mask. Will they all find a place to play? Most likely, yes. Will that school be their first or second choice? Who knows...there are a host of factors that influence that ultimate decision.

But let's suppose that you have a very good player, who wants to play at University X because that school has a great academic program that she is interested in. But their coach won't look at a player who wears a mask. It's all about the education, isn't it? Should the player suffer because of her choice to wear the mask? She will probably have to make the choice...wear the mask or choose a different school. That's all I'm saying...wearing a mask, like it or not, reduces the pool of scholarships to the player who wears it. Simple fact.

 

[InsidePitch]

I believe it’s because this isn’t about catastrophic injury at all. Facial injuries affect how pretty a girl is and we can’t handle that. We can be pretty certain masks will prevent black eyes, bloody noses and cuts and bruises. They’re about looks as much as safety. If you read all the posts in this never ending thread you’ll find a couple that mention that very point. If it wasn’t about how are daughters are our princesses we’d be as adamant about mandating masks for boys 12 and under. Different sport, but same field dimensions and similar risk of injuries. Braces sound like a very legit reason. Even so, why don’t baseball parents make their son’s wear masks when they’ve got braces?

DD's first year of playing SB I asked the woman HC why girls had masks on the helmets where boys didn't. Her reply..."you won't sue if your son gets stitches, he'll wear that like a badge of honor."

 

[schwabach]

Not sure if stupidity is a skill - why would a "hunter" not use superior tools at hand rather than risk injury going "Against the lion" Un protected?

Have we tortured that metaphor enough?

Probably, but I am reminded of an old USMC joke...or, more precisely, an Army joke at the expense of Marines.

Alligator Shoes

An Army Ranger was on holiday in the depths of Louisiana, where he tried to buy some Alligator shoes. However, he was not prepared to pay the high prices. After failing to haggle the vendor down to a reasonable price level, he ended up shouting "I don't give two hoots for your shoes, man, I'll go and kill my own!"

The shopkeeper replied, "By all means. Just watch out for the two Marines who are doing the same.

"So the Ranger went out into the Bayou, and after a while saw two men with spears, standing still in the water. "They must be the two Marines," he thought. Just at that point he noticed an alligator moving in the water towards one of them. The Marine stood completely passive, even as the gator came ever closer. Just as the beast was about to swallow him, the Marine struck home with his spear and wrestled the gator up onto the beach, where several already lay. Together the two Marines threw the gator onto its back, whereupon one exclaimed "Damn! This one doesn't have any shoes either!"

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

 

[sbmom19]

Ahhhh...another dreaded face mask thread. Always makes me laugh at how heated this makes both sides and how nasty everyone gets. My DD is a catcher 90% of the time - mandatory face mask. We had a discussion with her when she was 13 and line-drived a player into the dirt at third base (thankfully the player was not seriously injured or disfigured) about wearing a face mask when she played infield and she decided that it was pretty dumb to risk her face or health when there was a piece of equipment that could help. She has worn one ever since. If a coach thought less of her for wearing one then so be it-anyone who has seen her play would never believe that she was afraid of the ball so if she is being judged solely on whether she is wearing a mask or not then it isn't the right coach anyway. I will also stand up and say that IMO anyone who doesn't make a pitcher wear one is nuts. My DD has a 71mph bat exit speed (recorded many times by multiple coaches) and the best pitcher would have an awfully hard time defending a line drive off of her bat at <40 feet. Ask Paige Lowary her opinion about wearing a mask these days. Personally I couldn't live with myself if my DD was disfigured for life because of vanity over wearing a mask and I know that she would have been haunted forever by the sight of that third baseman in the dirt if she had disfigured her. Just my opinion and I think everyone is entitled to theirs.

 

[riseball]

Your numbers are probably sound for ALL softball players. The percentage goes way up if you eliminate the girls who play high school ball and have no interest in playing in college. My daughter's HS team had one senior who ended up pursuing and attaining a college scholarship out of five (DII, if it matters). This coming year, there are two (she's going DI and another one DII) out of five.

Look at any good 18U travel team. Odds are, the majority of the players will be playing in college, with a scholarship. We're not talking about the 373,892 players in high school now, we're talking about probably 1/10 that number or less. Those are the players that we should be talking about, because they're the ones who are actually impacted by the biased coaches who are anti-mask. Will they all find a place to play? Most likely, yes. Will that school be their first or second choice? Who knows...there are a host of factors that influence that ultimate decision.

But let's suppose that you have a very good player, who wants to play at University X because that school has a great academic program that she is interested in. But their coach won't look at a player who wears a mask. It's all about the education, isn't it? Should the player suffer because of her choice to wear the mask? She will probably have to make the choice...wear the mask or choose a different school. That's all I'm saying...wearing a mask, like it or not, reduces the pool of scholarships to the player who wears it. Simple fact.

So does not being able to hit, low GPA, poor work ethic, and a lack of ownership. The biggest obstacle to anyone getting recruited are their own abilities, not a piece of metal and foam. There are lots of opportunities out there and if the sole reason for playing is to pay for college, you are probably going to wash out in the first year with the others. A mask is a handy excuse when you do not want to own up to your shortcomings. If you believe that you can't make it work because of a mask, an inanimate piece of metal then just quit and move on to something else. If you do wear a mask then own it and find a way to be successful. That is what winners do. That is what you should be learning from playing the game.

 

[MTR]

Bad analogies. The goalie's job is to stand there and BLOCK everything with what ever. The football play leads with his head and often is the first thing to get hit. The catcher has something thrown at them the entire time on defense that are often errant at the younger ages and that must be blocked. Then there is the chance of a foul tip that only by luck hits the glove.

Actually, these are perfect analogies to my comment. As a teen, I used to play on a neighborhood no-equipment tackle football team. We played some pick-up games (off season) against a couple HS teams and against some semi-pro guys and when it came to contact, it was eerie how these big guys who would throw themselves at larger players in a regular game would back away from hits without their armor.

What do you think would happen if today's JO/HS/College players were forbidden from wearing any protection other than headgear at the plate.

However, while it may create a deficiency should the equipment be taken away, while wearing it, it gives the player confidence to make the play and actually improving their skills.

 

[BobInMadison]

If masks are for wimps, why does Batman wear one?