Lotief?

[riseball]

So now you are blaming the victims? They chose to be *allegedly* physically and mentally abused because they stayed?

Wow. Just wow.

No. Not at all. As they say, what you permit you promote. Either speak up or leave. These are not little kids, but adult women. The first time it happens you are a victim and I have empathy. If you stay in an abusive relationship you become complicit as you enable the continuation of the behavior.

 

[Easton33]

No. Not at all. As they say, what you permit you promote. Either speak up or leave. These are not little kids, but adult women. The first time it happens you are a victim and I have empathy. If you stay in an abusive relationship you become complicit as you enable the continuation of the behavior.

Speak up or leave, those accounts are doing just that. They are speaking up and one letter is from a girl that stayed there 2 weeks and left. Granted some waited too long but they spoke up nonetheless and the accounts were deemed credible by the university. Lotief could have just brought the title IX stuff up to help cover his butt. He is a lawyer. Think about that, Lotief gets wind of an investigation brings up the title IX stuff and dared the university to fire him. I thought it was strange for the title IX discussion to come up when he was suspended. Seriously what college would go ahead and fire someone when they have publicly came out challenging them on women's rights and equality? They know lawsuits would be waiting for them and the negative publicity would be terrible. After reading a bit more about Lotief, I think he probably did this in an effort to muddy the waters and manipulate the situation into his favor.

When you coach players on what to say or how to respond to a compliance officer, you know you aren't doing things right.

 

[TMD]

No. Not at all. As they say, what you permit you promote. Either speak up or leave. These are not little kids, but adult women. The first time it happens you are a victim and I have empathy. If you stay in an abusive relationship you become complicit as you enable the continuation of the behavior.

Wow. Is that really the direction you want to take this? The classic "if you stay in an abusive relationship it is now your fault" argument? Look, outside of your posts on DFP, I don't know you from Adam, but I've got to believe you are better than this.

As a long-time coach myself, I have real problems with what Lotief is alleged to have done. I have no idea if he actually did these things, compelling reading of student allegations aside, but if he did then he was rightly let go in my opinion. And this has absolutely nothing to do with old school coaching. Nowhere in my Old School Coaches Manual does it say to demean, belittle, threaten, and abuse (psychologically or physically)...maybe some of you guys still have the "Old" Old School Coaches Manual? :^)

Old School is supposed to equal discipline, accountability (for coaches and players), motivation, and control. In Old School, if you do a drill wrong, you do it again and again until you get it right. Having trouble getting it right? Maybe a quick lap or two will help refocus you.

The fact that there are overly sensitive parents and overly entitled kids out there is irrelevant in this situation. The earlier examples of coaches being fired because they made their volleyball players run outside or they referred to their ace pitcher as the "horse" of the staff are head-shakingly ridiculous. In my opinion, parental over-involvement is the singled worst thing happening in youth sports today, mainly due to the downstream impacts (impact on recruiting climate, impact on little Muffy or little Biff's sense of entitlement, impact on potential great coaches saying "ef this, don't need this headache", etc.).

With regards to coaching behavior, it's not a light switch. Everybody has their own point at which a coach's style moves from "tough disciplinarian" to "abusive prick", and teammates will frequently read the same coach very differently.

 

[riseball]

Wow. Is that really the direction you want to take this? The classic "if you stay in an abusive relationship it is now your fault" argument? Look, outside of your posts on DFP, I don't know you from Adam, but I've got to believe you are better than this.

As a long-time coach myself, I have real problems with what Lotief is alleged to have done. I have no idea if he actually did these things, compelling reading of student allegations aside, but if he did then he was rightly let go in my opinion. And this has absolutely nothing to do with old school coaching. Nowhere in my Old School Coaches Manual does it say to demean, belittle, threaten, and abuse (psychologically or physically)...maybe some of you guys still have the "Old" Old School Coaches Manual? :^)

Old School is supposed to equal discipline, accountability (for coaches and players), motivation, and control. In Old School, if you do a drill wrong, you do it again and again until you get it right. Having trouble getting it right? Maybe a quick lap or two will help refocus you.

The fact that there are overly sensitive parents and overly entitled kids out there is irrelevant in this situation. The earlier examples of coaches being fired because they made their volleyball players run outside or they referred to their ace pitcher as the "horse" of the staff are head-shakingly ridiculous. In my opinion, parental over-involvement is the singled worst thing happening in youth sports today, mainly due to the downstream impacts (impact on recruiting climate, impact on little Muffy or little Biff's sense of entitlement, impact on potential great coaches saying "ef this, don't need this headache", etc.).

With regards to coaching behavior, it's not a light switch. Everybody has their own point at which a coach's style moves from "tough disciplinarian" to "abusive prick", and teammates will frequently read the same coach very differently.

If it is true he needs to go. Tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. No question about it. But those who remain silent in the face of his actions are part of the problem.

 

[Sparky Guy]

No. Not at all. As they say, what you permit you promote. Either speak up or leave. These are not little kids, but adult women. The first time it happens you are a victim and I have empathy. If you stay in an abusive relationship you become complicit as you enable the continuation of the behavior.

While it may look black and white the situation is not. How many of the players are/were on scholarship? The thought of losing that can keep some players quiet and endure things they would normally not outside of softball. We don't know about the players family financial situation. We hear stories all the time about victims speaking up only to incur the wrath of the school administration when they move into the circle-the-wagons mode. It's a lot of pressure for the players.

After reading through some of the accounts about Lotief, the one that sticks out the most in my mind to the insight into his MO is the very public display of vulgarity he displayed when addressing the grounds crew at the university where they were the visitors. If he had no problem doing that to complete strangers at another school it makes me wonder what he felt comfortable doing within the team environment.

Trust me, I'm all for tough coaching and pushing athletes to be their best. My DD played for a program that pushed their players both physically and mentally to prepare them for the rigors of college ball.

 

[Easton33]

If it is true he needs to go. Tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail. No question about it. But those who remain silent in the face of his actions are part of the problem.

Agreed and they should go too. The school has done what they are going to do and there won't be anything else said about it, the players probably won't file suit, Lotief has done just enough to state his innocence and make people doubt his guilt, now he will just fade away and the Cajuns will return to mediocrity.

 

[_MIA_]

It does suck because now kids who really know the material well enough to get an A get grouped in with the others who probably should have received a B at best. For the most part, the administration doesn't really care about the quality of education and is more
interested in keeping the students, e.g. the consumers, e.g. the future donors, happy. Whatever.. I don't have the energy or wherewithal to fight that battle anymore.

I know I said I was done with the off-topic banter but I thought this was interesting (and maybe tangentially relevant to the topic at hand..not sure )

The Fragile Generation - Reason.com

Also FYI, my kid's elementary school doesn't allow kids to bring balls out to recess since ball games "cause too many arguments"
I would have flipped out if they had done that to me

 

[FP26]

I know I said I was done with the off-topic banter but I thought this was interesting (and maybe tangentially relevant to the topic at hand..not sure )

The Fragile Generation - Reason.com

Also FYI, my kid's elementary school doesn't allow kids to bring balls out to recess since ball games "cause too many arguments"
I would have flipped out if they had done that to me

Interesting article and several valid points. It is interesting how times have changed.

In regards to Lotief... The allegations that have been presented are quite serious, in my opinion. And if they are true, he has no business coaching or supervising people. Unfortunately, accusations are not always accurate. I have been witness to some things on both sides of this fence. As a member of our local youth sports association several years ago, some allegations were brought to our attention concerning a soccer coach. When we investigated the situation, we found that he was guilty and we removed him from his position. However, I have also been interviewed/interrogated by our school board on behalf of the varsity softball coach. The allegations that were brought forth against her were ridiculous and not even remotely true. Simply a personal vendetta that someone was trying to create. The part that irritated me the most about that is the one-sided-ness of the situation. If the allegations were proven, the softball coach would have been fired. But even though we proved the allegations to be false, the accuser received no penalty of any type. People can simply make up stories/lies and not be held accountable for their accuracy. Just doesn't seem right to me...

 

[BobInMadison]

........................................

 

[Chaz McNulty]

What is one of the most disturbing things about this thread is there are apparently some folks who see what Lotief is accused of and don't find it to be a big deal.

Here is how I see it.

If you read the allegations against Lotief and you are not appalled, you should NOT coach at any level. Ever. Until you realize what he did was wrong.

If you think constant emotional harassment of players, in a way that strikes me as mind control tactics, is OK, you should never coach. Bullying doesn't "toughen up" anyone. It can cause lifelong emotional scars. It can completely destroy some people. And don't blame the victims for not rising up. The coach has far more power, including power over their scholarships. I have seen the way people who blow the whistle are treated, and it takes someone extremely strong to blow the whistle.

If you think physically attacking players is OK, don't coach. You might wind up in jail, and if you do, you will deserve it.

It you think it is OK for a coach to demand the passwords for the athlete's email accounts, you should never coach. Especially a male coach demanding passwords from female athletes.

I know, I have never coached. I was an educator for a number of years.

Also, all my kids have participated in athletics. My DS has been extremely lucky in his coaches in rowing. All had been part of top D-I programs, some were Olympians. These are people who knew how to win. These were people who knew how to build winning programs. He's had coaches on several levels who have sent numerous boats to national championships, and have coached people who have made national teams. I am not saying my DS is a great athlete. He's not. He's an OK athlete who has had incredibly good coaching, and so has accomplished more than the vast majority of people in his sport. He's done far more than people who are much more athletically talented.

These coaches were NEVER abusive. And they have won, big time. They have accomplished far more than coaches who think that abuse "toughens up" the athletes. No, these coaches have much tougher athletes.

Great post, and I couldn't agree more!