Lotief?

[Chaz McNulty]

No. You always have a choice. You may not like your options but you always have a choice. It may be difficult or even painful but you always have a choice.

I really disagree with the stance you are taking on this. Especially when the abuser is in a position of complete power. Do you have any problem with what Harvey Weinstein did? All those women had a choice.

 

[riseball]

I really disagree with the stance you are taking on this. Especially when the abuser is in a position of complete power. Do you have any problem with what Harvey Weinstein did? All those women had a choice.

You cannot make an rational argument that they did not have a choice. They were not kids that were kidnapped and held against their will. This is not akin to Elizabeth Smart. These were adults at a school where they played the game of softball in return for an education. He was not in a position of complete power. Anyone could leave at any time. The players that put up with the behavior weighed the pros and cons and decided to stay and reap the benefits.

Of course I have a problem with what Weinstein did. If it is true then he, Lotief, Cosby, Spacey, etc. are scum. Some of the women were truly victims as they could not see it coming and took them by surprise. But if it was so egregious you do not wait months, years, or even decades to come forward after you have benefited from the situation. You cannot have it both ways. Likewise you do not play multiple seasons and then later jump on the band wagon.

 

[Easton33]

These were adults at a school where they played the game of softball in return for an education. He was not in a position of complete power. Anyone could leave at any time. The players that put up with the behavior weighed the pros and cons and decided to stay and reap the benefits..

So one or two players found it egregious and the others reported what happened to them or what they saw. The one player left within two weeks of joining the squad. So let's just take her as the example. From what I have read, she did everything you are saying she should have done and then complained. She joined the program and she thought his behavior was so over the top that she left, no quid pro quo and now she has told her part of the story. Whether it be as the intial complaintant or as a backup to the main complainant, her story is there and she is the example of what it seems like you think a player should have done. So apparently it was that bad that a player left. Could she be jumping on the bandwagon? Sure she could but it doesn't seem likely. She may not have even volunteered, the school administration could have asked her to detail her experience.

Played softball for an education.........had to deal with physical and emotional abuse to play softball. They made young adult decisions to put up with it in order to play and get an education. Now they should just be quiet because they got what they wanted.

Visited Harvey in his room.........had to deal with physical and emotional abuse to be casted in movies and possibly make millions of dollars. These were all young adults too that made the decision to go see the guy that could control their future. Some of them got exactly what they wanted and are telling their stories after the fact.

Seeing a whole lot similarities here....mind you Harvey is only accused of raping 1 actress I think. The other crap is about massages and being inappropriate, touching inappropriate and saying inappropriate things.
Lotief is being accused of inappropriately touching a player, (not sexual) saying inappropriate things (that actually does have sexual nature to it).
There is a lot more in common with these two cases than anyone wants to admit I think. Especially if you paint with broad strokes.

I think there are about 50 states that disagree. He is in a position of power and although not absolute it is enough for it to be illegal for a coach to sleep with his players. If a High School coach is having sex with a player and that player is 18 it is still illegal and considered rape. Why? Because that Coach is in a position of authority, and I have not yet seen the "she could have walked away" defense work much less likely to see the "she got what she wanted" and then complained defense work either.

This is not about Lotief being accused of any sex crime, he hasn't. This is just a rebuttal, a different scenario pointing out that your logic and line of reasoning doesn't apply. I usually agree with you rise ball but I think you are OILF on this one.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I really disagree with the stance you are taking on this.

It's textbook victim blaming; don't feed the troll. Any time someone defaults to questioning what a victim could have done differently to prevent abuse it's victim blaming.

That those players chose to be (allegedly) abused is absurd.

 

[riseball]

It's textbook victim blaming; don't feed the troll. Any time someone defaults to questioning what a victim could have done differently to prevent abuse it's victim blaming.

That those players chose to be (allegedly) abused is absurd.

Trolling is when you intentionally distort someones stated position to advance your own position. Never said they chose to be abused. Nothing even close.

For whatever reason some choose to stay in an toxic situation when they clearly have a choice. Nothing prevented them from leaving. That behavior transcends being a "victim".

It is one thing to have empathy for those who are truly a victim. It is another to promote a victim mentality that is so common in society today. If someone wrongs you at any point in your life you are a victim. If they disagree with you they distort your position and call you sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. The list goes on and on.

When you clearly have an out and for an extended period of time choose to stay, I fail to see how you are a victim. People are not defined by their circumstances, but rather the choices they make.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

When you clearly have an out and for an extended period of time choose to stay, I fail to see how you are a victim. People are not defined by their circumstances, but rather the choices they make.

Do you think that will be Lotief's defense if it goes to court? "Well they were adults, they made a choice and didn't leave. It's on them."

Typical people that blame victims focus on what the victim could have done (made different choices) rather than focus on the perpetrators and what they could have done differently. It's textbook.

 

[riseball]

Do you think that will be Lotief's defense if it goes to court? "Well they were adults, they made a choice and didn't leave. It's on them."

Typical people that blame victims focus on what the victim could have done (made different choices) rather than focus on the perpetrators and what they could have done differently. It's textbook.

I seriously doubt that it will go to court. If so I cannot seeing anything that would typically result in criminal charges. As to this being a defense, no as his actions would be hard to defend under any circumstance.

To me it appears that it was a coach that was over the top and it finally caught up with him. Nothing more and not nearly as bad as what happened at Auburn. Would I want one of my DD's to play for him? Probably not. Would I be extremely disappointed in them if they chose to endure that type of behavior to play softball and as a means to an end to pay for school? Absolutely!

 

[BobInMadison]

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[riseball]

Never understood how someones actions, when they have nothing on the line can be considered "heroic". To her credit I would considered her actions as admirable. I guess I have a more traditional view with respect to both heroes and victims by considering the individual costs, motives, and accountability of those involved.

 

[BobInMadison]

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