Knob to the ball or barrel to the ball?

[Cannonball]

fanboi22, nope. You'll never get me to say who my favorites are. LOL I am an ex expert. My opinion really doesn't matter much. In fact, I'm sure you can find a dozen or more (thousands) that would agree that my opinion is worthless.

I've been at this a long time and on many sites. Things change and people change over time. Back in the days of the "hitting wars," a friend one day would be an enemy the next. You have to decide for yourself. I would ask you to take a look at Eric's dd's swing. Eric has been consistent on his participation here and has posted his dd's swing multiple times. I did as well back in the day.

 

[Xplode22]

What we found to be very important but the hardest part to get used to is keeping you body stacked and keeping the proper angle on the shoulders. Not keeping shoulders flat which causes head to pull.

 

[fanboi22]

fanboi22, nope. You'll never get me to say who my favorites are. LOL I am an ex expert. My opinion really doesn't matter much. In fact, I'm sure you can find a dozen or more (thousands) that would agree that my opinion is worthless.

I've been at this a long time and on many sites. Things change and people change over time. Back in the days of the "hitting wars," a friend one day would be an enemy the next. You have to decide for yourself. I would ask you to take a look at Eric's dd's swing. Eric has been consistent on his participation here and has posted his dd's swing multiple times. I did as well back in the day.

Understood. Would just comment again how polar opposite the hitting forum is to the pitching forum but I understand your position. Even this thread with different people showing the same hitter in a different photo in the same position but a different camera angle to prove a completely different point. It just goes around and around. Not really sure why this is such a contentious topic but I suppose I will continue to sit back and watch and try to pick up something here and there. Just seems the same thing is said 15 different ways and makes it confusing.

I have used Eric’s DD a few times already as someone to emulate so that has helped quite a bit. Thanks again.

 

[FP26]

Understood. Would just comment again how polar opposite the hitting forum is to the pitching forum but I understand your position. Even this thread with different people showing the same hitter in a different photo in the same position but a different camera angle to prove a completely different point. It just goes around and around. Not really sure why this is such a contentious topic but I suppose I will continue to sit back and watch and try to pick up something here and there. Just seems the same thing is said 15 different ways and makes it confusing.

I have used Eric’s DD a few times already as someone to emulate so that has helped quite a bit. Thanks again.

fanboi22,

I think there are really three reasons why the hitting forums and the pitching forums are so different.
1) As someone else stated, hitting requires the ability to hit a moving object. As a pitcher, you are in control of the timing. As a hitter, you need the ability to adjust to what the pitcher is trying to do.
2) Many people on these forums have experience hitting. Maybe not at a high level, but through little league, high school ball, etc. In some cases, they even experienced some success. A much smaller percentage of posters have as much experience with windmill pitching. Debates are less likely to happen, because there are not as many "experts". As far as those that have previous hitting experience, sometimes "you don't know what you don't know".
3) In pitching, you really need to be fairly good at your craft to have much success. In hitting, even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while. Sometimes players with good instincts and above average athleticism will produce results that are above the level of their mechanics. Sometimes players with good mechanics still fail because of other challenges; eyesight, athleticism, etc.

It doesn't matter what forum you review or even what coach you talk to. There are many varying opinions concerning hitting. What I have learned during my time on these sites is that there is often a pretty good amount of overlap from theory to theory, but some folks won't admit that...

 

[Xplode22]

It is very overwhelming sometimes. But the information from these posters is invaluable. You kinda have to sift through the info and use what works for your DD.

 

[clemenslee1]

fanboi22,

I think there are really three reasons why the hitting forums and the pitching forums are so different.
1) As someone else stated, hitting requires the ability to hit a moving object. As a pitcher, you are in control of the timing. As a hitter, you need the ability to adjust to what the pitcher is trying to do.
2) Many people on these forums have experience hitting. Maybe not at a high level, but through little league, high school ball, etc. In some cases, they even experienced some success. A much smaller percentage of posters have as much experience with windmill pitching. Debates are less likely to happen, because there are not as many "experts". As far as those that have previous hitting experience, sometimes "you don't know what you don't know".
3) In pitching, you really need to be fairly good at your craft to have much success. In hitting, even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while. Sometimes players with good instincts and above average athleticism will produce results that are above the level of their mechanics. Sometimes players with good mechanics still fail because of other challenges; eyesight, athleticism, etc.

It doesn't matter what forum you review or even what coach you talk to. There are many varying opinions concerning hitting. What I have learned during my time on these sites is that there is often a pretty good amount of overlap from theory to theory, but some folks won't admit that...

I like what you wrote, hitting is much more accessable to all players at all ages vs pitching. Not everyone can pitch, but everyone can hit. So there is much more like you said "experts" in hitting.

 

[Xplode22]

We use a hitting coach because my DD will respond to him more than dad. I go to every lesson and work on the same drills at home. I catch for her at pitching lessons and gain the same knowledge. I have coached her for 7 years, and we do great at practice. But at home I’m dad and she really doesn’t want me to be in the coach role at home

 

[Eric F]

fanboi22 - The single best thing you can do to help sort things out for yourself is to pick up a bat and swing it. Try to apply what people are saying, and see how it feels in your own body. Also be aware that your understanding will likely evolve over time.

 

[fanboi22]

fanboi22,

I think there are really three reasons why the hitting forums and the pitching forums are so different.
1) As someone else stated, hitting requires the ability to hit a moving object. As a pitcher, you are in control of the timing. As a hitter, you need the ability to adjust to what the pitcher is trying to do.
2) Many people on these forums have experience hitting. Maybe not at a high level, but through little league, high school ball, etc. In some cases, they even experienced some success. A much smaller percentage of posters have as much experience with windmill pitching. Debates are less likely to happen, because there are not as many "experts". As far as those that have previous hitting experience, sometimes "you don't know what you don't know".
3) In pitching, you really need to be fairly good at your craft to have much success. In hitting, even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while. Sometimes players with good instincts and above average athleticism will produce results that are above the level of their mechanics. Sometimes players with good mechanics still fail because of other challenges; eyesight, athleticism, etc.

It doesn't matter what forum you review or even what coach you talk to. There are many varying opinions concerning hitting. What I have learned during my time on these sites is that there is often a pretty good amount of overlap from theory to theory, but some folks won't admit that...

Thank you. I appreciate the thoughtful response.

 

[fanboi22]

fanboi22 - The single best thing you can do to help sort things out for yourself is to pick up a bat and swing it. Try to apply what people are saying, and see how it feels in your own body. Also be aware that your understanding will likely evolve over time.

And this I have done. I look like crap as well and this has helped me understand the feels and analyzing my own swing videos has helped me identify the cues to use with DD. Most recently I have started trying to go thru certain things people are saying. But when taking people literally it isn’t always the best approach.

That is where you have to sift thru the literal and get to trying to practically apply it somehow. Which is why the ARod video and his swing approach isn’t wrong if you apply it the way he means it. Just amazes me that we always have to try and figure out what someone is intending to mean or say.

What I am now trying to do is have my daughter ‘feel’ balanced, keep back heel down, stride to a comfortable position while keeping hands pinned to back shoulder as rear elbow ‘pulls’ up and back slightly (scap load). Initiate swing by ‘Crunching’ obliques keeping hands pinned to shoulder (creating connection) which creates the TTB rotating initially with the torso crunch and then ‘releasing’ hands from the pinned shoulders changing from rotational to linear to ‘push’ the hands towards the oncoming pitch ‘knob to the ball’ which as a result there is barrel lag as it is turned around the shoulder to achieve ‘barrel to the ball’ with the final ‘whip’ release of the bat head to the ball with good extension of the arms without fear of rolling over until after contact.

These are now all things that have been told in many different ways and some of the ways are in the hall of shame. But not taken literally seem to create a pretty good looking swing path.

My biggest question now would be the final whip version vs what I am seeing with coach mikes student Haley where she seems to rotate around to the ball keeping back arm pinned to side and not getting a ‘whip’ but more just deep speed at the barrel from snapping and TTB quickly at start but ‘releasing’ the barrel after contact and only getting extension way after contact was already made. This is probably my biggest concern as they are two very different approaches to the swing.

I may start another thread for that one but not sure what responses I would get as no one seems to want to commit. Comments will be get deep in zone and TTB. But not explaining if one should ‘whip’ the barrel or just turn to contact. Hopefully I am explaining that correctly.