Knob to the ball or barrel to the ball?

[FP26]

The amount of "extension" a hitter gets prior to contact is impacted by a number of things. Timing and pitch location are just two of those things. Is Haley's swing perfect? No, of course not. But it is better than many/most swings I see from hitters at that age. It is clear that @Mike-Coach-Q has a plan for her and is working with her to further develop. I don't think he believes Haley is a finished product. And if @Eric F is willing to vouch for Mike, that's all the validation I need to trust his work. I would be very interested in seeing Haley swing at a pitch low and away. I think that swing and the result of it would show a different amount of "extension" than the tee swings from that thread.

 

[Eric F]

And this I have done. I look like crap as well and this has helped me understand the feels and analyzing my own swing videos has helped me identify the cues to use with DD. Most recently I have started trying to go thru certain things people are saying. But when taking people literally it isn’t always the best approach.

That is where you have to sift thru the literal and get to trying to practically apply it somehow. Which is why the ARod video and his swing approach isn’t wrong if you apply it the way he means it. Just amazes me that we always have to try and figure out what someone is intending to mean or say.

What I am now trying to do is have my daughter ‘feel’ balanced, keep back heel down, stride to a comfortable position while keeping hands pinned to back shoulder as rear elbow ‘pulls’ up and back slightly (scap load). Initiate swing by ‘Crunching’ obliques keeping hands pinned to shoulder (creating connection) which creates the TTB rotating initially with the torso crunch and then ‘releasing’ hands from the pinned shoulders changing from rotational to linear to ‘push’ the hands towards the oncoming pitch ‘knob to the ball’ which as a result there is barrel lag as it is turned around the shoulder to achieve ‘barrel to the ball’ with the final ‘whip’ release of the bat head to the ball with good extension of the arms without fear of rolling over until after contact.

These are now all things that have been told in many different ways and some of the ways are in the hall of shame. But not taken literally seem to create a pretty good looking swing path.

My biggest question now would be the final whip version vs what I am seeing with coach mikes student Haley where she seems to rotate around to the ball keeping back arm pinned to side and not getting a ‘whip’ but more just deep speed at the barrel from snapping and TTB quickly at start but ‘releasing’ the barrel after contact and only getting extension way after contact was already made. This is probably my biggest concern as they are two very different approaches to the swing.

I may start another thread for that one but not sure what responses I would get as no one seems to want to commit. Comments will be get deep in zone and TTB. But not explaining if one should ‘whip’ the barrel or just turn to contact. Hopefully I am explaining that correctly.

Yes, we want to create whip.

As FP26 noted, Haley’s swing is not a finished product. Neither is Maddie’s. They are very different athletes. Maddie is more of a “free-mover” than Haley, and is blessed with larger size. Haley is learning how to loosen up a bit, and Mike is helping her tap into every ounce of power her smaller frame can generate. One of the areas I see that still needs adjustment for Haley is having “oily” wrists that allow whip to happen. Maddie is better with this particular factor, however, her “free-move” tendencies get a bit unruly sometimes, and we are trying to tighten up a couple of areas.

As always, apply the Hansen Principle.

 

[fanboi22]

The amount of "extension" a hitter gets prior to contact is impacted by a number of things. Timing and pitch location are just two of those things. Is Haley's swing perfect? No, of course not. But it is better than many/most swings I see from hitters at that age. It is clear that @Mike-Coach-Q has a plan for her and is working with her to further develop. I don't think he believes Haley is a finished product. And if @Eric F is willing to vouch for Mike, that's all the validation I need to trust his work. I would be very interested in seeing Haley swing at a pitch low and away. I think that swing and the result of it would show a different amount of "extension" than the tee swings from that thread.

Are these gifs showing ideal extension or just that they will always be different?

On a pitch over the center of the plate waist high, good timing , ideally where should contact be made?

 

[fanboi22]

Yes, we want to create whip.

As FP26 noted, Haley’s swing is not a finished product. Neither is Maddie’s. They are very different athletes. Maddie is more of a “free-mover” than Haley, and is blessed with larger size. Haley is learning how to loosen up a bit, and Mike is helping her tap into every ounce of power her smaller frame can generate. One of the areas I see that still needs adjustment for Haley is having “oily” wrists that allow whip to happen. Maddie is better with this particular factor, however, her “free-move” tendencies get a bit unruly sometimes, and we are trying to tighten up a couple of areas.

As always, apply the Hansen Principle.

Do you have an example of a swing my DD should emulate that I can use the Hansen principle on? I would goto the model swing thread but no one can agree on a good swing. Thanks.

 

[Eric F]

Do you have an example of a swing my DD should emulate that I can use the Hansen principle on? I would goto the model swing thread but no one can agree on a good swing. Thanks.

Sorting out the model swings you like is part of the process of learning about mechanics. Look at top MLB and top college softball players. Keep watching until you can start seeing the similarities and differences between them.

A handful of the swings I like...MLB - Cabrera, Bellinger, Trout, Yelich, Donaldson, Springer, Posey, Griffey, Justin Turner... Softball - DiCarlo!, Hugo, Flores, Sanchez...

 

[FP26]

Are these gifs showing ideal extension or just that they will always be different?

On a pitch over the center of the plate waist high, good timing , ideally where should contact be made?

This will vary some from hitter to hitter based on their anatomy. However, one of the first things I do when working with a new hitter is ask them to set up the tee and their positioning to their liking. Then I gradually make adjustments to find what works best for them. In general, the tee will fall someplace between their front foot and their front knee after they stride. In most cases, the hitter starts with the tee much further out front. Within a few sessions we have it back in the area I'm working towards and their original alignment feels awkward to them.

Keep in mind that when facing live pitching this is going to vary quite a bit. A ball typically takes .400 (4/10) of a second to get from the pitcher's hand to the catcher's mitt (college level). That means in 1/10 of a second it is moving approximately 10 feet. It will travel nearly a foot in 1/100 of a second. To demonstrate how quick this is, open the stop watch on your smart phone. Try to start and stop the watch in 1/100 of a second. The best I can do is 6/100s (just a little game I play with my students to show them how much reaction time they have...). Anyway, my point is that the odds of hitting the ball in the exact perfect contact location are extremely small. The purpose of getting the barrel behind the ball is to provide a bigger timing area to make solid contact. Think of the old saying "short to, long through". The long through part is what allows for these timing variances.

 

[Westwind]

This will vary some from hitter to hitter based on their anatomy. However, one of the first things I do when working with a new hitter is ask them to set up the tee and their positioning to their liking. Then I gradually make adjustments to find what works best for them. In general, the tee will fall someplace between their front foot and their front knee after they stride. In most cases, the hitter starts with the tee much further out front. Within a few sessions we have it back in the area I'm working towards and their original alignment feels awkward to them.

A simple thing that a surprising number of people haven’t thought about and don’t do correctly!

When people say that tee work causes problems with the swing I automatically think of jacked up tee positioning...