Jordyn Bahl

[EdLovrich]

This is because people are looking at feet and not paying attention to hands. As previously pointed out.

This is because the hands are not referenced in the rule and are not a determining factor.

 

[Bullseye]

This is because the hands are not referenced in the rule and are not a determining factor.

The post was a reference to previous conversation identifying the difference between leaping and crow hopping with a pitch already being started it is not starting after the landing. Identified by the hands already being separated.
Have no interest in your interpretation of rules. Have interest in discussing identifying pitching. As previously said because most people do not identify looking at what the pitcher is doing with her entire body they often times only look at the feet. You probably missed the previous part of conversation and have jump in late. To the discussion of a pitcher's fluidity and no hesitation.

 

[jadefish]

The post was a reference to previous conversation identifying the difference between leaping and crow hopping with a pitch already being started it is not starting after the landing. Identified by the hands already being separated.
Have no interest in your interpretation of rules. Have interest in discussing identifying pitching. As previously said because most people do not identify looking at what the pitcher is doing with her entire body they often times only look at the feet. You probably missed the previous part of conversation and have jump in late. To the discussion of a pitcher's fluidity and no hesitation.

She plays D1 softball and should follow NCAA rules. NCAA rule says bearing weight, replant = crow hop. So she crow hop. Why do other rules or other people's definitions even matter?

 

[EdLovrich]

Either way, hands have nothing to do with it. Under NCAA leaping is the pivot foot leaving the ground, crow hopping is hopping or dragging the foot to a replant. Also, gaining the second starting point and pushing off again are subsequent to the crowhop, they are not the cause of it but rather the result.

NCAA 10.5.5 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off their pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

Notice that (crowhop) is directly after hop or drag to a replant, before the comma. In other words, a crowhop is moving the pivot foot forward either in the air or along the ground and placing some part of the bottom of the foot on the ground (that is the replant portion)

 

[EdLovrich]

people do not identify looking at what the pitcher is doing with her entire body they often times only look at the feet.

That would be the correct thing to do, NCAA rule 10.5 is titled Step/Stride and deals solely with the feet of the pitcher. Hands, hips, shoulders have nothing to do with the application of this part of the pitching rule.

 

[wheresmycar]

Notice that (crowhop) is directly after hop or drag to a replant, before the comma. In other words, a crowhop is moving the pivot foot forward either in the air or along the ground and placing some part of the bottom of the foot on the ground (that is the replant portion)

So, your position is crow hopping by itself it not illegal in NCAA? Because, rule 10.5.5 has 3 components, 1-replant, 2-gain a second starting point, 3-push off her pivot foot. There is no "or", so all 3 are required to be in breach.

10.5.5 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot.

While other rule bodies specifically state, "Crow hopping is illegal", the NCAA does not have that specific language.

Hands are very important to pitching rules, and mentioned frequently, as the pitch delivery begins when the hands separate. Which is why the NFHS training video specifically points out when the pitchers hands are still together, and a new starting point is established. The NCAA specifically states, the pitch delivery must be "Continuous" which is why the "hitch or hesitation" is important to watch for.

 

[wheresmycar]

That would be the correct thing to do, NCAA rule 10.5 is titled Step/Stride and deals solely with the feet of the pitcher. Hands, hips, shoulders have nothing to do with the application of this part of the pitching rule.

So, umpires are only enforcing rule 10.5?

 

[EdLovrich]

No that is not my position, just the definition of which part of the action is the crowhop. I submit to the discussion that if a P crowhops (i.e. drags or hops forward to a replant), there is nothing else that CAN happen other than she gains a second starting point and pushes off her pivot foot. The crowhop leads to the second starting pont leads to pushing off again. Go ahead, try it. once you put weight back onto that pivot foot, you have gained a second starting point.

I am also not saying that the hands have nothing to do with the pitching rule, I am saying they have no bearing on 10.5

 

[EdLovrich]

So, umpires are only enforcing rule 10.5?

Nope, we enforce all of the rules, but this post is dealing with 10.5 Step/Stride

 

[EdLovrich]

The NCAA specifically states, the pitch delivery must be "Continuous" which is why the "hitch or hesitation" is important to watch for.

Actually, the only time the word "continuous" is used in the pitching rule, is in 10.6.2 The pitcher’s step/stride to the batter must be continuous. In fact, by rule the hands, after separating can stop and change direction twice (NCAA 10.4.3).