Jordyn Bahl

[wheresmycar]

No that is not my position, just the definition of which part of the action is the crowhop. I submit to the discussion that if a P crowhops (i.e. drags or hops forward to a replant), there is nothing else that CAN happen other than she gains a second starting point and pushes off her pivot foot. The crowhop leads to the second starting pont leads to pushing off again. Go ahead, try it. once you put weight back onto that pivot foot, you have gained a second starting point.

I am also not saying that the hands have nothing to do with the pitching rule, I am saying they have no bearing on 10.5

Wait, I think you just agreed with me....

 

[wheresmycar]

Actually, the only time the word "continuous" is used in the pitching rule, is in 10.6.2 The pitcher’s step/stride to the batter must be continuous. In fact, by rule the hands, after separating can stop and change direction one time (NCAA 10.4.3).

Again, we seem to be in agreement here. Weird....

 

[EdLovrich]

The NCAA specifically states, the pitch delivery must be "Continuous" which is why the "hitch or hesitation" is important to watch for.

If this is what you think we agree on, then I think perhaps we don't. The rules do not prohibit the hands from stopping. In fact, they explicitly permit them to stop and reverse direction up to two times, during the wind up. It is the step/stride that needs to be continuous.

Although, I would be tickled beyond joy if we can come to an agreement that is grounded in the rule book and uses rule book language.

 

[wheresmycar]

If this is what you think we agree on, then I think perhaps we don't. The rules do not prohibit the hands from stopping. In fact, they explicitly permit them to stop and reverse direction up to two times, during the wind up. It is the step/stride that needs to be continuous.

Although, I would be tickled beyond joy if we can come to an agreement that is grounded in the rule book and uses rule book language.

In the context of our crow hopping discussion, I was NOT referring to the transition from back swing to stride forward. No idea why you would think that is what I was referring to. The "Hitch" occurs during the stride, and is a tell tell sign of crow hopping. It is very clearly demonstrated in the NFHS umpire training video.

You want to nit pick language, and yet you ignore the 2nd and 3rd components of 10.5.5, saying the other two must happen if there was a replant. LOL. Hard to come to an agreement using rule book language, when you want to ignore 2/3 of the rule's wording.

Oh, just to be clear, I meant you were agreeing with me... not the other way around...

 

[EdLovrich]

I am not ignoring the second and third parts of 10.5.5. I am saying that it is not possible for a P to drag or hop to a replant and NOT have the second and third parts of the rule occur. Sort of like it is not possible to fall off a roof and not land on something. One leads to the next leads to the next. If, in some way, a P was able to drag the bottom of her foot along the ground and not have it some to a stop (which would be replanting it) then she, most likely, would not gain a second starting point and would therefor not be able to push off with her pivot foot. If that somehow happened, it would not be an illegal pitch, no matter how ineffective or 'wrong' it looked.

As far as the NFHS video, it is not the fact that the pitcher keeps his hands together that creates a crowhop, despite what the audio says, and yes, that discussion has been had on NFHS sites many times. In NFHS, crowhop is defined as "the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch" and yes the crowhop itself makes a pitch illegal (NFHS 6.1.2 Note 2). By rule, the delivery does not start until after the hands separate (NFHS 6.1.2.a). When the hands separate, the P in the video has already dragged/hopped forward and is not in contact with the pitcher's plate and, technically, this is the infraction leading to an illegal pitch (NFHS 6.1.2.c Pushing off the pivot foot from a place other that the pitcher's plate is illegal). It is a small difference and the end results are the same, but small differences matter.

 

[EdLovrich]

The "Hitch" occurs during the stride, and is a tell tell sign of crow hopping.

Are you saying there is a hitch/hesitation in the arm movement or in the step/stride?

 

[BlaineAB]

She leaps and it seems like the umpires not calling her on it is the defacto rule change at the NCAA level.

Wish Michelle Smith would have brought it up during her analysis, but oh well.

 

[_MIA_]

Will be interesting to see what happens in the tournament regarding calling it when a run or two may matter..the way they are hitting now they could call it every pitch and they would still win...(yes that was an exaggeration..sort of)

 

[clemenslee1]

Will be interesting to see what happens in the tournament regarding calling it when a run or two may matter..the way they are hitting now they could call it every pitch and they would still win...(yes that was an exaggeration..sort of)

Watched the non conference game against Kentucky. OU was literally smashing the ball. UK hitters struggled against Bahl, but I think in part that was due to just intimidation factor and not attacking early.

 

[_MIA_]

Watched the non conference game against Kentucky. OU was literally smashing the ball. UK hitters struggled against Bahl, but I think in part that was due to just intimidation factor and not attacking early.

Everyone has struggled against her because she triple jumps