Is it safe to teach a 9 year old a Screwball?

[Topdog@3rd]

I guess I should have elaborated more on that post. I don't teach a screwball to a girl until she is in her teens. By then all the mechanics should be solid for all of her other pitches and she's had the time to develop a good rise ball.

The last two have hit the nail on the head. Is there any college coaches on here??
Speed, location and a change at times till 11, 12 or 13 then move in with the junk. The child MUST be consistant, strong and fast. When the child can throw 18 or 19 out of 20 strikes all day long, (with movement) then you have a girl that can pitch. If you have a coach that is not thinking this, ask them what they think. You are paying the bill you should get the answer you want. The answer should be Consistency should be the first answer.
A good girl needs a good coach. NOTE: I'm a parent not a coach, with a pitcher and rarely even catch my 13 yro. at this point.

Here is the explaination.
At college clinic's I have seen this to meny time's I've lost track. And I hate to say it, I find it amusing at times. The dad coaches, For the most part are behind this.
Here we go.
Hi coach, my name is xyz and I'm 14 yro. I can throw a 62 mph fast, I have a change, a screw, a drop, a rise and a 2 finger knuckle. Are you warmed up? yep. Ok, go to it. Call your pitches as you throw. States fastball, 1st. 2 in the dirt, 3rd nails 61 mph strike, states change, high for a ball. Coach says thanks. Moves on.
Next girl, Hi coach, My name is abc, and I'm 15. I have a 63 mph fast, a change and I just started to work the drop and rise last year. Go to it, and call as you throw she says. Child states fast, 1st 3are for strikes, calls a inside rise, ball, call inside fast, Strike!! Coaches make notes and talk to girl all clinic and at the end you hear hope to see you soon check out our web sight and get on our mailing list.
I watched this just a week ago wile standing next to a very decoreated coach here in Mich., wile one of his girls was there to be evaluated.
All I'm saying is don't put the cart b-4 the horse. At 9, can she throw 43 mph and 18 out of 20 over the plate????
I don't know, I know there is a girl, about 1 out of every 12 to 14 travel teams that may be a bit more advanced, and this girl the 9 year old this was started about may be the one, but I think this topic is missleading to all the dads out there with ideas that there dd will pitch at the college level and they are looking threw rose colored glasses. If they can't do the basic's which 90% can't, why add more to there thought process that they won't be able to throw.
CONSISTENCY #1 this is my point

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

The last two have hit the nail on the head. Is there any college coaches on here??
Speed, location and a change at times till 11, 12 or 13 then move in with the junk. The child MUST be consistant, strong and fast. When the child can throw 18 or 19 out of 20 strikes all day long, (with movement) then you have a girl that can pitch. If you have a coach that is not thinking this, ask them what they think. You are paying the bill you should get the answer you want. The answer should be Consistency should be the first answer.
A good girl needs a good coach. NOTE: I'm a parent not a coach, with a pitcher and rarely even catch my 13 yro. at this point.

Here is the explaination.
At college clinic's I have seen this to meny time's I've lost track. And I hate to say it, I find it amusing at times. The dad coaches, For the most part are behind this.
Here we go.
Hi coach, my name is xyz and I'm 14 yro. I can throw a 62 mph fast, I have a change, a screw, a drop, a rise and a 2 finger knuckle. Are you warmed up? yep. Ok, go to it. Call your pitches as you throw. States fastball, 1st. 2 in the dirt, 3rd nails 61 mph strike, states change, high for a ball. Coach says thanks. Moves on.
Next girl, Hi coach, My name is abc, and I'm 15. I have a 63 mph fast, a change and I just started to work the drop and rise last year. Go to it, and call as you throw she says. Child states fast, 1st 3are for strikes, calls a inside rise, ball, call inside fast, Strike!! Coaches make notes and talk to girl all clinic and at the end you hear hope to see you soon check out our web sight and get on our mailing list.
I watched this just a week ago wile standing next to a very decoreated coach here in Mich., wile one of his girls was there to be evaluated.
All I'm saying is don't put the cart b-4 the horse. At 9, can she throw 43 mph and 18 out of 20 over the plate????
I don't know, I know there is a girl, about 1 out of every 12 to 14 travel teams that may be a bit more advanced, and this girl the 9 year old this was started about may be the one, but I think this topic is missleading to all the dads out there with ideas that there dd will pitch at the college level and they are looking threw rose colored glasses. If they can't do the basic's which 90% can't, why add more to there thought process that they won't be able to throw.
CONSISTENCY #1 this is my point

Excellent post. I agree with you that too many parents and pitching coaches "push" these kids into new and more pitches before they are ready. I hear all the time about 10YOs who have 5 pitches and I cringe because they do not even have "command" over one of their pitches. Secondly, I am concerned that they are learning breaking pitches before their bodies are ready for stress on the wrist, elbow, and shoulder. Injuries may not show up right away but after months and years of practicing pitches that they are not ready formay prove detrimental to their arms. Every parent should have a game plan for their pitching DD and ask themselves when and why new pitches should be introduced.

 

[NWITom]

I agree also with last couple of posters. My DD's are 11 and 9 and throw 47-48 and 43-45. They are taught fastball with 6-12 spin and change ups ,location. No junk and a PC that has multiple D1 pitchers. As a pitchers Dad I am more focused on keeping their mechanics spot on which at this age is a struggle.

 

[SouthernGirls]

Proper mechanics are the most important thing to teach young girls. Who cares if you say your daughter can pitch 6 different pitches at age 9. The question is how many of those pitches can she actually dominate with time and time again? It not how many different pitches you throw but how well you throw the different pitches. JMHO

 

[jasonr]

I have always resisted teaching my daughter any breaking pitches. I always laughed at the dads who after a pitch was thrown in the dirt would say that was his DD's "new drop" or the one high was her "new rise". My daughter who just turned 10 has complete command of her FB. She can put it anywhere the catcher sets up and can hit her flip change for spots as well. Several coaches and PC's can't believe that she hasn't moved on to "other" pitches. What they don't see is "still pictures" of a little girl with way too much flex in her joints because of her age. No way in the world would I risk her long term health so I can brag around the ball field.
We continue to work on mechanics, mostly leg drive and strength this off-season. Trying to get her speed up to make her a dominate pitcher with speed and location. Plenty of time down the road for movement pitches when her body is ready. Not when dad or PC is ready

 

[SoftSocDad]

... so if you wait until 12 or perfection in control, you may run out of time...

I know that you qualified it with 'may', but what you're expressing is one of the prime motivators of hyper-crazy - the fear of parents that they will run out of time in turning their daughters into the next great thing.

I think my kiddo's best fastball is nice and effective (which isn't saying much at this age), but until she can throw it on demand, she doesn't need to even think about learning new pitches.

 

[Topdog@3rd]

SoCaldad,
So now that we all have chimned in on this, I have a few coments from someone we all can take notes from. I'll try not to end up longwinded, we'll see??
Anyway, BACK TO THE ORGINAL QUESTION. "Is it saft to teach a 9 yr old a screwball"


I have a dd, 15 had a appt. (unrelated) that is seeing a Doc. at Med Sports U of M in Ann Arbor, she happens to be a team Doc as well.

Here is what she had to say. "No, No, No" "In the past 4 years it is apparent that PC's and dad's are adding way to much way to soon". "We have seen a 28% incress in sholder and elbows, more so the elbow in just 4 years". "There are two growth plates in the elbow that can not keep up with the stress and strain, (esp. the screw coming across the mid section as they release)". "The girls are ending up with Tommy John's, toren tendends and meny are ending up in sergery." "meny do not return" "we just did sergery on a 11 yr. old 3 weeks ago" "she is done". So that is from someone that see's it everyday.

I never spent much time on thinking about it till you brought this up,
We here, have the the amazing chance most of the year to go to all camps and combines with the u of m coaches and players and again in pitching, focus is on speed, form and PLACEMENT. Even in the larger camps at 16 and 18, they are still working form 1st. So they'er never to old. Junk is 2nd.

I'm sure this is not the answer some people wanted to hear but, those that didn't, will just choose to not pay attn. or try to argue the point. We may live in the snow here, but you can't ask for a better Med Sport program and people that do know what the heck they are talking about.

Hey, When the heck is the snow going to melt?? Itching all ready. Should have moved when we had the chance. Fla. Az. anyone have a good paying job so my 13 and 15u can be outside all year. I'm READY!!! LOL

So, that is "2 cents" passed on. Take or leave it people.

I wish all your dd's a safe and great season to come.

 

[Topdog@3rd]

information to understand why a peel release for the screw across the midsection would be harmful.

it had not to do with turning the wrist over but bringing the elbow in-ward towards the trunck in a bent manor on release causing the strain one the inter growth plate, not the uper that ties the bi-cept bone together (can't remember the name of dang bone). Anyway, Thats kindda what I got out of it =0)

 

[Ken Krause]

I think it's difficult to make a blanket statement that a particular pitch is safe or not safe to throw. There are different ways to throw various pitches, so while one method for the screwball may be harmful, another may not be.

This, by the way, is one of my difficulties with trying to follow exactly what you think you see on video. It may or may not be true. That's why it's important to think things through and try to understand exactly what is happening.

I've taught movement pitches to kids as young as 11 and they've never had a problem with injuries despite being able to get dynamic movement. It comes from working with the way the body is designed rather than rotely following some formula. It also comes from testing it on myself first. It's sort of like airplane safety and pilots -- generally speaking the pilot has a great deal of incentive to land the plane safely since he/she is on it too.

The only problems my pitchers have ever developed (so far) are related to over-use -- pitching too many games with too little rest in too short a time. Those problems can develop even if you're throwing nothing but fastballs to spots. It happened to one of my students over the spring and summer. But she's fine now.

You do have to be careful with what the pitcher is learning. But it's not as black and white as people often think. Learning a new pitch can also help recharge the enthusiasm for a pitcher -- especially in areas where off-season practice involves a lot of time indoors.

 

[Topdog@3rd]

I think it's difficult to make a blanket statement that a particular pitch is safe or not safe to throw. There are different ways to throw various pitches, so while one method for the screwball may be harmful, another may not be.

This, by the way, is one of my difficulties with trying to follow exactly what you think you see on video. It may or may not be true. That's why it's important to think things through and try to understand exactly what is happening.

I've taught movement pitches to kids as young as 11 and they've never had a problem with injuries despite being able to get dynamic movement. It comes from working with the way the body is designed rather than rotely following some formula. It also comes from testing it on myself first. It's sort of like airplane safety and pilots -- generally speaking the pilot has a great deal of incentive to land the plane safely since he/she is on it too.

The only problems my pitchers have ever developed (so far) are related to over-use -- pitching too many games with too little rest in too short a time. Those problems can develop even if you're throwing nothing but fastballs to spots. It happened to one of my students over the spring and summer. But she's fine now.

You do have to be careful with what the pitcher is learning. But it's not as black and white as people often think. Learning a new pitch can also help recharge the enthusiasm for a pitcher -- especially in areas where off-season practice involves a lot of time indoors.

Ken I agree you can not make a blanket statment for that pitch. This was the topic, (The screw) and I asked the doctor only because the chance was there and she gave me some good info.

Also I agree there are kids out there that are advanced and have developed or growen. Like I said, 1 in about 10 to 12 teams. that can learn some new stuff, a little at a time.

A good example is TS at Finesse here, (this is the one kid I can think of here and I know a ton of teams and girls Here), this kid last year at 11 yrs, 5' 6 or 7" was throwing 60 could climb the ladder Rt to Lt, up and down. And is commanding this kid is a stud (can you say full ride anywhere). Her and my dd's coach here, has her working the screw and a drop wile my dd almost 1 1/2 yrs older and at 55 is still working the change and he has her on a knuckle ball this off season. At the girls hour sessions Charles will work only 15 to 18 min. on "junk" maybe, meny days less. Form, form and some more form speed, speed and consistenance. that was all I was trying to say and at 9yrs a screwball??????? should not even be in the mind of a good PC or better yet a parent. I'd almost put my house on it that there is not a 9yr old out there that can throw18 to 19 out of 20 for a TRUE strike with placement. I have to say it again 9 yrs, 9 and teaching a screwball????
I would love to hear what The Doug G's, Mary P's and Charles F's or any college coach for that matter would have to say about it, 9????? I may be wrong,but I'm thinking, NOT.LOL
Anyway, Plus I had a chance to talk to Doctor that only handles this stuff and thought I'd put it out there. Really didn't mean for it to sound like a blanket statment. Now that I think about it, that is just what it sounded like. Sorry.

Have a rock-en day everyone!!!