Is a screwball a screwball?

[Dial]

Watch this short video. It explains/demonstrates what happens when a pitch is released with spin on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhXZ186FNIk

I liked the explanation of the rising fastball. Science to the rescue.

 

[BoardMember]

I think it's called a screwball because it's "screwy" to see a ball influenced to the right from a righthander.

 

[smddad]

IME, if thrown correctly, the screw ball will break late and into a RHB. A fast ball thrown at an angle will not have that late-breaking movement that a true screw ball will have.

There is no such thing 'late-breaking movement' of the ball. As the velocity slows and rotation slows, the Magnus effect decreases and the ball breaks less as it approaches the batter, not more.

 

[KneeHighSocks]

A lot of pitchers will claim to have multiple pitches, when in reality they just locate a fastball. While my DD does not have a world class screwball, here is the screwball portion of her skills video. It is a couple of years old and she was 14 at the time.

My DD is learning the screwball right now and throws it VERY differently than her fastball. She strides out more on her glove side, brings her throwing arm in closer to her body and then is more square to the catcher after release. If thrown correctly it goes straight down the middle and breaks right just over the plate . Similar to JAD's video above.

JAD... my DD is only 10 so she doesn't always nail this pitch but I showed her this video and she found it helpful!

 

[corlay]

There is no such thing 'late-breaking movement' of the ball. As the velocity slows and rotation slows, the Magnus effect decreases and the ball breaks less as it approaches the batter, not more.

"Late-break" is a perceptual phenomenon, not a physics one.
your mind is predicting a trajectory, and when the ball deviates from the predicted trajetory, we perceive it as a "jump" as our mind re-aligns to the physical trajectory of the pitch.

 

[sluggers]

Is a screwball a screwball? Or is it just a fastball thrown at an angle? If it is just a fastball thrown at an angle, what is/was the point of teaching to turn hand with a hitch hikers thumb?

There is a lot of mythology in breaking pitches and softball. It is like the X-Files: Everyone wants to believe. You have game announcers sitting in a booth 20 feet saying pitchers are "drops" or "rises" or "screwballs" with no clue as to what the pitcher actually threw. Then, of course, there are daddies (and I was one) who wants to think their kid has six different pitches. (I've never quite figured out why a millionaire pro-pitcher paid millions of dollars a year and has all the time in the world to work on pitching, only has three pitches [fastball, change, curve] while little 10U Suzy has six.)

There is *NO* video evidence of any pitcher throwing a pitch with 3-9 or 9-3 spin.
People swear that their DD throws a screwball. But, no one seems to be able to actually produce a video of a screwball where we can see the seams.

In Perfect Circle's GIF, I don't see anything remotely close to 3-9 spin. Additionally, the pitch appears to be thrown well below "game speed". In JAD's video, if you watch the ball after it comes out of her hand, it goes straight as an arrow.

The "illusion" of movement is created because the pitcher's hand and arm movement at release is different from a normal fastball.

Pitchers with a good screwball are actually throwing bullet spin pitches. They don't curve, but they do have a flight path different than that of a fastball.

And, as I've mentioned, the best movement pitcher there ever was in softball was Cat Osterman. If anyone should be able to throw one, she should. But, she doesn't. Yet, for some reason every daddy thinks his 12U DD can throw one.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Yep... and every hitters Daddy thinks the same thing....

Anyways... They were all 2 seam 1/7 spin... you can see the tape... it was from last year's winter work, getting ready for the big 7th grade team

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xAkzLhKLN8E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here it is in game speed...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/s7m_1R5N_uw?rel=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

... all 3rd strike swinging.

 

[smddad]

"Late-break" is a perceptual phenomenon, not a physics one.
your mind is predicting a trajectory, and when the ball deviates from the predicted trajetory, we perceive it as a "jump" as our mind re-aligns to the physical trajectory of the pitch.

You're preaching to the choir about perception. I've been saying what you posted for years. It's a correction between what the brain is assuming will happen with the new information coming from the eyes. But that still doesn't mean there is a late break in movement and the screwball is still, basically, an angled pitch.

 

[Perfect Circle]

You're preaching to the choir about perception. I've been saying what you posted for years. It's a correction between what the brain is assuming will happen with the new information coming from the eyes. But that still doesn't mean there is a late break in movement and the screwball is still, basically, an angled pitch.

Just glad that the catcher has the perception to get her glove over there to catch it ... JMHO

 

[Perfect Circle]

coach james

I agree with what you say here but a whole lot of times we have those dads that think stepping 3 foot off the power line is a screw ball? Lets be hinest , most kids that throw all of these pitches do little or nothing! Where I agree with you is, yes you can make it move, the problem is most don't and most worry more about stepping out than SPINNING THE BALL!

Hey 5Tool welcome to the board.

Stepping Out ???

One of the guidelines on here is video evidence. "the M. Hanson Principle" Don't know if your giving or taking advice??? If giving, is my DD stepping out ???