IR Screwball Question??

[Madsofball]

Ok folks...for some reason I am having a very difficult time reconciling this in my head. I have attempted to search the forum for previous discussion in this to no avail (doesn't mean it's not there). My initial thought is that my question is so dumb that there was never any reason for it to be discussed previously.

Anyway, for some reason I can't wrap my head around how one goes about imparting screwball spin while internally rotating the forearm. It's seems to me to be quite difficult. I have tried to get the feel by playing around doing the "lock it in drill" as well as "show it drill", but I just can't seem to get it figured out. I'm starting to think that the internal rotation of the forearm and wrist is not compatible with this particular pitch. Am I slow to catch on, or...

No need to sugar coat the responses...I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed!! In all serious, any/all explananations/clarifications would be greatly appreciated!

 

[sluggers]

There are no dumb questions, just dump people.

Just kidding...

IMHO, the best approach is to think of "pronation of the forearm" and "IR pitching motion". (I believe was either Java or JJ who came up with this idea.)

Pronation (which could also be called internal rotation) of the arm is part of the IR pitching motion. But, there is more going on in the IR pitching motion than just pronation of the forearm. The IR pitching motion has many parts to it.

For the screwball, you use the IR pitching motion...ball up at 9, e.g.. But, you don't pronate the forearm.

 

[Madsofball]

There are no dumb questions, just dump people.

Just kidding...

IMHO, the best approach is to think of "pronation of the forearm" and "IR pitching motion". (I believe was either Java or JJ who came up with this idea.)

Pronation (which could also be called internal rotation) of the arm is part of the IR pitching motion. But, there is more going on in the IR pitching motion than just pronation of the forearm. The IR pitching motion has many parts to it.

For the screwball, you use the IR pitching motion...ball up at 9, e.g.. But, you don't pronate the forearm.

Thanks for the reply. I understand your explanation completely. Help me take it a step further. It is my understanding that the pronation of the forearm is a significant contributing factor good whip and thusly speed. Without that pronation of the forearm where/how is the speed generated in throwing the screw ball

 

[JJsqueeze]

From my experience a screwball is a bullet spin pitch thrown outside to inside RHP to RHB so it is just like every other pitch w/regards to I/R...you do throw with I/R but you jump left and throw right....I am praying someone proves me wrong with a nice video clip though because I really do want to believe in this pitch.

 

[javasource]

Mad,

Sluggers is spot on, IMO. In pitching context, think of IR as the bicep going from 2nd to homeplate... think of pronation as palm up to palm down. Two separate articulations... one happens at the shoulder, the other in the elbow.

Pronation... see above... will change the degree that your hand is behind the ball. Less pronation... less hand behind the ball.

As far as speed... this is a matter of simply chaining energy through the arm (shoulder to hand)... to which pronation is not necessary... but accelerating the hand absolutely is... all of which you can do without pronating the forearm.

As far as how... the screwball has many variations... most of which find the yard... and really piss off your third baseman. . Some teach keeping the hand inside the ball, some teach turning a doorknob... (the only person I've actually seen come close to the latter would be Nelson). Most everyone uses some variation of stride manipulation... some even teach combining a circle that runs outside the shoulder line... so that the upper and lower body are both working inward to impart the best release angle on the ball. Some even call this a curve... depending on the batter you face... and if they hail from baseball.

No matter the case, this pitch requires discipline to mechanics in other pitches, a good... scratch that, great 3B, and really benefits from a green monster...

Some have success with this single-plane pitch... no doubt... but if you're looking for a good second/third pitch... you might start messing around with a 2-seam fastball that can become 2-planes of movement... morphing it into an in-cut over the years.

P.S. what are the softballs below our name all about?

 

[JJsqueeze]

Java-

Trying to leverage off your vaster (yeah its a word for me ok) experience. Have you seen screwballs that have break to them? Also, you mentioned 2 seam fastballs above...are you a believer now ?

 

[Rocketech1]

I will add my 2 cents. DD's screwball (and most other RHP screwballs I have seen) have 1/7 spin, are an angled pitch, and generally are thrown low in the zone. The angle, location and speed has a lot to do with the effectiveness of the pitch, not necessarily the movement which I think is negligible. The rare "door knob" variety that Java mentioned was used effectively by Meg Langenfeld in 2010 who won the WCWS & MOP awards. I think she threw the screwball 70 - 80% of the time. She had very good control on the pitch.

 

[JJsqueeze]

as for the balls...it is some weird computation having to do with everything but quality of post, otherwise you would not be so lacking in the ball dept...you would have 500.

 

[Madsofball]

Thanks for all the response. My DD was taught "turn the knob" along with a subtle step left. We really had not focused any attention on this pitch until relatively recently. She actually came home after being with a friend and said "dad I was messing with my screw ball today and I think it is breaking". I was very skeptical but we went out and threw it some. Don't get me wrong...it is not consistent, but I feel AT TIMES she is getting late break with it. Here's my deal...she at times struggles (mental block) to throw her fastball high & inside to a RHB, so I thought what the heck let's try it in a couple of live situations. She threw it with some success in a tournament two weekends ago. Interestingly, I think (don't use radar) it is about the same speed as her fastball.

I posed the original question because I was/am skeptical and was trying to figure out if she could throw that pitch more effectively with different mechanics than she was taught originally. Sounds like the answer to that is no. It also sounds as if there is a healthy amount of skeptisim regarding whether it's a beneficial pitch to invest in.

I have some decent video of her throwing it a couple of times but it is buried in 8 minutes of game pitching so it would be a lot to wade through. I'll see if I can get a couple of practice pitches.

Java-I'm VERY interested in hearing more about the 2 seam FB. Is there a thread that you know of where this is discussed in more detail?

Thanks again guys!

 

[javasource]

Java-

Trying to leverage off your vaster (yeah its a word for me ok) experience. Have you seen screwballs that have break to them? Also, you mentioned 2 seam fastballs above...are you a believer now ?

Vaster,

Just jumping riseballs...

As far as the 2-seam... this is my means to get a kid to convince her coach to let her throw a fastball.

And I've learned a good deal from you, too... you know more than many people that call themselves a pc.