Invited DD's HS Pitching coach to our workout.

[bobbyb]

Thought I would share an experience from today. I make fun of HS ball and the problems I have seen associated with it the last couple years…so I want to give credit when something good is done.

HS practice started again this week and they do try outs all this week. I had my dd invite the HS pitching coach… to come my dd’s workout with me…to show her (PC) what we do. The HS PC is a former college player. She is a closed hip-power elbow pitcher. We only spoke only a few times last year…as I like to stay out of it as much as possible when dd is being coached.

The first thing she mentioned was she knew I disagreed with the process of how they ran before pitching practice last year. It wasn’t the running but the whole process of conditioning they did… that just didn’t make sense and was not useful. Basically dd had weights during last 2 hours of school every day. When they weren’t lifting they were running. They also were doing weights to increase strength rather than maintain strength during softball season etc.

Then dd went straight to softball practice or games every day… where the pitchers ran a couple more miles before pitching practice. If your dd is in HS you know how busy the schedule is. There is little to no rest time…and it caught up with my dd. By the last few weeks…dd was having back soreness, sore shoulder, huge blisters on the bottom of both feet and one ball of the foot had huge bruise across the ball of foot. She was stiff as could be…and it affected her technique…of course.

After one game…I could see from center field that dd was way off the powerline…I spoke to the AC and PC that night…PC thought she wasn’t closing her hips. I explained how beat up she was and showed them the dirt that clearly showed… she was striding nearly a foot to the left of the power line which was unlike her…all because her body had hit some limits with the way things were done. I wasn’t rude or obnoxious…I simply calmly stated my thoughts.

I am sure…the PC had doubts about coming to our practice…as you never know what you will get with a daddy…just like you don’t know what you will get with meeting a coach.

She started to go into the running thing and I explained that I wanted her to see …where we were with dd’s pitching… and explain to her what we do and why.

I explained our process and why…..and showed her IR. I asked her if she watched Baylor play in the worlds series and she said yes. And I explained that Whitney Canion is a great example of how we are trying to pitch. She even said she also noticed that many of the pitchers did not do… what she had learned. But she wasn’t sure what they were doing. We talked about it and I suggested Hillhouses videos and this forum.

We had my dd’s boyfriend there to catch and I explained our workout as they went to the pitching session. We talked about our process, IR, dd’s weakness and strengths…and where I thought dd was at …where we were having problems... and what process we used during TB series to get some rest. We simply talked and watched. She was picking up on what she saw dd doing pretty fast.

We even threw the football together afterwards… for her to feel the elbow slotting and staying open.

She thanked me for inviting her and how I approached it. It was a very good exchange and I feel we are all more on the same page now.

I share this because many people post…they are concern to talk to a coach and I can understand that there are some people that are not easily approachable. But sometimes you need to talk to your coaches…to get on the same page. You do have to approach it in a friendly…non threatening demeanor.

If they are a decent person…and you approach it correctly…it can be a useful exchange for all. I will not show up at practices and try to help…I will not be in her ear the rest of the season. I will let her coach. I also let her know that she can contact me anytime she wanted to…and that I would be staying out of it from here… unless she asked. I think she and my dd will communicate much better and they can develop a relationship.

This worked out great today…and we now have a HS pitching coach that I am sure will be studying a style that is new to her…that will benefit everyone. Incase she does show up here...I thank you coach for being that kind of coach and that kind of person!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Most coaches don't understand that ALL pitchers are different. Especially at the HS level. What works for one does not work for all. Bad mechanics are one thing, but forcing a certain pitching "style" is another. A good pitcher KNOWS what works for him/her. You don't need a PC, dad, or HS coach changing what makes her comfortable. She has to be in that comfort zone on the hill. AND CONFIDENT!!!

Look at Tim Lincecum, his style and delivery are "freakish" but work well for him.

 

[bobbyb]

2. Your school system can afford pitching coaches?

I believe she is a jr high teacher that has a passion for the sport she loves. I highly doubt she is paid for being the HS PC. I can see that she may become the next HS head coach or Assistant HC though. But we will see.

*Add to that, if you are under 50, have you not seen softball pitching as it is done for the last decade or more?

You lost me on this one!

 

[bobbyb]

Ok…I understand.
I think anytime …someone learns something different than what they know …its new to them…therefore I used the word new.

This PC is not very old…maybe upper 20’s?
I also think… most people that have had some success with an endeavor and when they are asked to teach…teach what they did or were taught. This is why change is usually slow…regardless of the context…whether softball or anything else.

In our experience...and there may be a lot of people that experience this when they start getting serious about dd pitching. They run across Ernie Parker as the main guru…and he teaches closing the hips. I think I said in another post…that we actually ran across George Jones from the St louis area before Ernies stuff…and he really teaches slam the hips.

So it’s a matter of perspective of using the term NEW. I understand many here have been teaching the correct way for years and its nothing new. However…the general public of beginning dads and moms, and people that do it another way… don’t know that.

 

[halskinner]

I suspect what bobbyb is trying to say when he says 'A closed style', is a style that does not get and stay fully open. Everyone always seems to assume that unless they stay completely open, they must get completely closed. That is seldom the case.

Closed and open are not styles nut that is a differenr discussion.

If the pitcher closes to around 45-degrees, that would be considered the 'Closed' style.

For a pitcher, a little running before a practice or game is one thing, after your other warm up exercises. MILES? MILES before a practice or game?? That is insane! The pitcher is going WAY past a good warm up and will be way closer to being exhausred! and this is especially true for a slender pitcher with little body fat to draw on for energy.

Weight lifting just before pitching is going to make you weak and slow you down.

You were describing a workout for football players! NOT PITCHERS! Tou do not want to bulk up a pitcher, Tou want slnder strong muscles not big strong muscles. Bulk a pitcher up enough and they will be fighting their own muscles tryinh to attain gpod speed. I found that out the hard way in the early 80's.

One of the most talented pitchers I ever had the honor of working with started her college pitching career on a full ride this year. Pre-season, the coach had all the players working with heavy weights in the gym. This pitcher is 6 foot tall, slrnder but strong and never had any injury playinh from 5 years old.

The coach had her doing squats under heavy weights. She tore her quad severely doing that. THE COACH HAD HER SITTING ON A CHAIR AND PITCHING WARM UP AT PRACTICE. Why a chair?? BECAUSE SHE COULDNT WALK! She quit the team the next day.

I am told that 2 od the other pitchers also quit as well as 2 of the assistabt coahes.

Sorry about the rant but your coach sounds alot like her coach.

I strongly disagree with what you have described their workouts consist of before pitching.

 

[ElmoBlatch]

1. How can there be any closed-hip pitchers under the age of 50?*

Look at Ellen Renfroe from Tennessee. She is highly successful and is very closed-hip. I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying that different styles work for different pitchers. One size does not fit all.

 

[wannahit]

the clips i have of the Renfroe sisters doesnt show them pitching with what most would consider closed hips, they appear to close their hips between the 45-52 degree area that most coaches recommend and they pitch against a stiff leg and actually fall back slightly.

 

[ElmoBlatch]

Ellen Renfroe does not open very much when she pitches. And neither does Escobedo for that matter.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/5208-model-pitchers-13.html

 

[bobbyb]

Screwball: “I” used the word style and new, not her...my bad. To be get the gist of the post…change the word…style to technique…and new to different. She would have to tell you her thoughts beyond that…to know her thoughts and perception of our meeting. I can only describe my perception of our meeting.

I can tell you she seemed to have no idea that many are purposefully trying to stay open…and use what is termed IR of the arm. And the first couple of times she threw the football…she closed and power elbowed it…which doesn’t work…and that was different/new for her.

Hal: your right…there is the Step Style or Leap & Drag style…I believe it has been discussed here before. I have seen this PC instruct and pitch batting practice. In reference to her hips…she is more of a straight on pitcher. She… does not…. open fully but …she does… close fully and she makes a power elbow. Whether she ever opened fully or not in college pitching, I do not know, however part of her instruction is to “close the hips”.

Terrible result for the young ladies lifting heavy weights. Hate to hear that…it is a shame. I totally agree with you on bulking up and weights and running miles prior to practice. I have many years of personal experience with training…and found that out in the 80’s myself in another sport. With all the research available about conditioning…it’s a shame there are still many people in our education/athletic system that don’t get it.

I am hoping we have the conditioning/weight part resolved though. This PC did not have control over the weight class…only the running they did just prior to practice. I did speak to HC, AC and PC last year about it, will again tonight at the parents meeting and the PC is advocate with me on this now. So we are expecting different results during the season. If not…I will be speaking with others.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Bobby, It is my opinion that the girls should not be running that much and certainly not in their cleats. Also, a good program that has a little running, has a coach at the front of the pack. Even my sons' HS state championship team, only ran one time around the field.

I agree with everything that Hal said, too.

My DD had to take a weight lifting class, in HS and I have no idea what it entailed, although I should have.