illegal reentry question

[66cobra]

in a game recently, the opposing team had a sub hit for the starting player (who was a player on the field, not a DP/Flex) then removed the sub to re-enter the original starting player. A couple of innings later, the same spot comes up, the coach removed the starting player again and re-inserted the sub who hit for her earlier. Just to re-emphasize, neither player was DP/Flex.

The re-entered sub hit a ball that drove in a run; home coach calls time and says the player that hit the ball entered as a pinch hitter the first time up and was removed so as such in favor of the original starter, she could not re-enter and so should be out and runners return to base. Umpire says no, she can re-enter. I agree with the home coach. Is this right? (since Umpire said it was legal the team scored 4 more runs after that)

Opposing coach says she made the move according to the DP/Flex strategies and said she had never been called on it, but how can she do that if neither player was DP/Flex?

 

[Comp]

Im assuming you are discussing a rule set other than NCAA. In every rule set I am aware of other than NCAA, every player has a re-entry. What you have described is legal as long as the sub was reported to the plate umpire.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Comp, I am reading this that the sub entered the game twice, for the starter.

 

[66cobra]

Ok, in a game earlier this season, basically the same thing happened and the batter was called out. She entered as a pinch hitter and was removed for the starter. Entered as a hitter again, got a hit and was called out for illegal re-entry

 

[Comp]

Comp, I am reading this that the sub entered the game twice, for the starter.

Amy, correct. A sub can enter for the starter, be removed and re-enter the game again as long as it is in the same spot in the batting order.

 

[66cobra]

The key thing here I think is the replacement by the starter. That's allowed but the same starter cannot be replaced by the same sub. The sub can re-enter for anyone else but the starter that replaced her.

ISF rules
An illegal re-entry occurs when:
c. A substitute who has legally been in the game returns to the game after being replaced by either the original starting player or another substitute

also, in other places I've read, basically a bench player cannot return to the game once replaced by the starting player.

I was under the impression that a pinch hitter was like a pinch runner. Once used, the player is ineligible for the rest of the game.

 

[Comp]

What rule set are you playing under?

 

[BrianMonk]

What you're quoting, ISF, isn't very common (around these parts).

ASA, NSA, USSSA and Fed are much more common.

As Comp has stated, every player has a re-entry. If they start as a sub then enter initially, that's not a re-entry but I look at is as an "entry". The "re" is still available.

 

[BretMan]

Under ISF rules only the starting players may re-enter the game after once being removed from the line-up. Non-starting players do not have re-entry rights. They may be entered as a substitute one time, but if they are subsequently removed from the game they are done for the day.

Many (but not all) other softball rule sets grant re-entry to ALL players, either starters or subs.

 

[honus14]

I've never done ISF, but it appears that under their rules the penalty does not include an out anyway, just ejection:

EFFECT - Sec. 7a-c:
1. Violation of the re-entry rule is handled as an appeal, which may be made at any time while the Illegal Substitute is in the game.
2. The appeal need not be made prior to the next pitch; however, all plays that occurred while the Illegal Substitute was in the game shall stand.
3. The penalty for an Illegal Re-Entry is: the ejection of both the manager/coach (whose name appears on the line-up card) and the Illegal Substitute.

Edit: Unless the sub was unreported. Section 8b.