Illegal Pitching

[Softball scholar]

Hard to argue that logic. One ump will call it while another will not... no different than 2 umps having different strikezone's. Rule book lists the strikezone but, there are umpires who flat out acknowledge they don't give the inside or outside corners, or whatever. I'm not talking about "missed calls" I'm talking about umpires who say they won't give a certain pitch even if it's a strike. It happens.

Here's the real issue with the illegal pitch problem in youth ages, field maintenance. The Maj says they love the "no advantage" argument. I love how parents, coaches and umpires expect a pitcher to "drag" with a 6 inch crater (or deeper) in front of the rubber. Get real. I'm willing to bet that is what causes a vast majority of "IP's"... tournaments with no grounds crew (or an organization that only fixes field when THEIR team plays).

Bill

I suppose theres a potential for injury here. The rules require the drag, and I see a lot of girls, including my DD, that drag hard and put that 6 inch gouge into the ground. Just the hard drag on the foot cant be good for the foot with so many repetitions. I know a girl who got a stress fracture from this.

I think this rule is so hard to enforce due to difficulty to visibly identify with normal vision and lack of training. Add in the damage you to the mound are and include potential from injury as i mentioned. Also how many more pairs of cleats do we buy due to early depreciated use from the wear marks caused by the dragging. Why dont why just make things simple and use the mens version of the rule? Things would be a lot simpler.

 

[Hillhouse]

Bad circle conditions are a fact of life, so I would advise all pitchers to learn to pitch with less than ideal conditions. If a pitcher has to have a "perfect" circle in order to pitch, she is going to be disappointed 92.8% of the time.....

92.8%? wow. ha ha. JAD, I get your point. But there's an important distinction between bad circle conditions and dangerous ones. Whether it's the hole in front of the rubber or where the food lands out front, both are major issues. An umpire's first priority is safety... whether it's wet field conditions, lightening, etc. All it takes is for one girl to fall in a hole trying to comply with the hardliner rules of dragging in a trench big enough for an oil pipeline or a moon crater where the front foot lands. In the USA there is a tremendous amount of liability, umpires can be liable, city or townships where tournaments are played can be liable if a girl is seriously hurt.

MOST places have a parks department. And for the cost of one team's entry fee, most municipalities will work the weekend tournaments. At the tournament I run here in Erie PA (men's FP tournament) I pay about $300 for the weekend of the city parks department field crew and I get the field fixed before EVERY game. Holes filled. Lines drawn, watered down. etc.

I know of people (nameless) who've hit batters because of the heavy rain and wanting to prove it's unsafe. But umpires eager to collect that $$ want the game to go it's 4 or 5 innings. What's the lesser of 2 evils? Hitting someone on his (or her) butt to show the ball is simply too slippery or slowing down to virtual slow pitch and a hot bat connects with a hot ball and it gets impaled onto a pitcher's chest, face, head, or anyone else's? Most of the time all it takes is a simple warning to the ump that the conditions are not SAFE and then he's on notice. Then if a girl takes a spill throwing a ball... I bet the field is fixed.

Bill

 

[Comp]

Why does everyone keep stating a pitcher is required to drag in aa hole or trench? That is not true. If there is a hole, the pitcher is not required to drag, but the foot can be no higher than the surrounding ground.

 

[Rocketech1]

I think it's been a 2-3 years now since I have seen an IP actually called for leaping, crowhopping on anyone. The last time there was a rash of IPs called was around 2010 and while I cannot prove it, it seems to be that the umpires have been instructed not to call IPs unless its egregious. IMO, the rule that you only have to "drag" the pivot foot the height of the ground if there is a hole in front of the pitching plate gives many umpires latitude in NOT calling the IP for leaping since there is almost always a hole in front of the pitching plate after a few dozen pitches thrown in the game.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Bad circle conditions are a fact of life, so I would advise all pitchers to learn to pitch with less than ideal conditions. If a pitcher has to have a "perfect" circle in order to pitch, she is going to be disappointed 92.8% of the time.....

DD learned very early, that the circle is her's ...She is the landlord, and rents it to the other pitchers... She learned from Yardwork, and helping us save some rain out games what its all about. Also she has never had any problems get a grounds crew or Coach to get the rake to help, with just a whine, if it needs more work than her cleats can do.... I taught her... one of the first things 1st to get the CirclePerfect

 

[Frenchy101010]

My dd's last fall ball game the opposing coach ask the umps to watch her, after an inning of watching both pitchers he said to the opposing coach if I was to call an IP it would be on your pitcher, didn't hear another word about it.

in her 5 fall ball games she pitched, there was a 1/4" down by 1/2" hole right in front of the rubber, and on two of the diamonds it was an old baseball mound that was declining, hard as hell to tell realistically if if she was legal or not.

 

[Hillhouse]

Why does everyone keep stating a pitcher is required to drag in aa hole or trench? That is not true. If there is a hole, the pitcher is not required to drag, but the foot can be no higher than the surrounding ground.

You're ASSUMING the other team and umpires working some low level tournaments actually understand that rule. AND that the girl understands what the rule actually is while many are taught to drag their entire foot from side to heel. MOST people see a foot not touching the ground and yell CROW HOP!!!! Nevermind they don't know the difference between a hop and leap... But the umpires are influenced by outside sources more than the rulebook.

Lets face it, the majority of tournaments are out to MAKE MONEY. this means the first thing they skimp on with expenses is umpires. Sometimes using parents to save costs... but definitely not wanting to pay top dollar to get the best in the area. That cuts into profits. And I get that... truly. But when you hire a baseball ump who only knows softball rules basics and sees a kid going "airborne" without understanding the "hole in front of rubber clause" they call IP when teams and opposition start yelling.... they fall under the pressure of the crowd.

Bill

 

[Comp]

So why spread further false information on this board? As for tournaments who are using umpires that apparently dont know the rules, learn to use the word PROTEST. If you know a rule is being misapplied, protest it.

 

[Hillhouse]

Comp, an IP is a Judgement call in 99% of the cases. Its not appealable. Its not available for NFL or MLB review.

Comp, where do you live? You obviously live somewhere that is blessed with tournaments who have actual tournament directors and UIC's. Areas where I live don't have much of a structure so who do you protest to?

Sorry you think I was spreading false information, I thought I was just stating reality and what most face. And my overall point stands, and it's not false info. MOST people don't know the rules. They don't know about this board. They don't know about "IR". Most people get their insights into rules from the person in the stands next to them. Or from a pitching coach who teaches the DRAG to be sideways. So what is the laymen to do? The word they get from the PC is law... rumors of what is the rule is more powerful than the actual rule around the field... especially if your pitcher is dominating.

Bill

 

[JAD]

DD learned very early, that the circle is her's ...She is the landlord, and rents it to the other pitchers... She learned from Yardwork, and helping us save some rain out games what its all about. Also she has never had any problems get a grounds crew or Coach to get the rake to help, with just a whine, if it needs more work than her cleats can do.... I taught her... one of the first things 1st to get the CirclePerfect

Did you pull a Mr. Miyagi on her? Damn, why didn't I think of that???