Illegal pitching

[ms244]

You believed something that an umpire told you?

And you want me to believe you? A different umpire?

I'm pretty much done with this topic. I will admit that I don't know everything about the rules, but I didn't claim to. I just find it annoying to see so many interpretations of the same rules by different umpires. Especially when they are so easy to see. One umpire calls it illegal when another doesn't. I guess it is a "free for all" on the pitching mound, just as long as you don't get caught it is legal. Not sure how this is showing young ladies how this is the right thing to do in life, but whatever. I will continue to watch my DD pitch the legal way and know that I'm doing the right thing. If an umpire wants to turn the blind eye and continue to allow blatant cheating to occur, that's on them.

 

[MTR]

And you want me to believe you? A different umpire?

I'm pretty much done with this topic. I will admit that I don't know everything about the rules, but I didn't claim to. I just find it annoying to see so many interpretations of the same rules by different umpires. Especially when they are so easy to see. One umpire calls it illegal when another doesn't. I guess it is a "free for all" on the pitching mound, just as long as you don't get caught it is legal. Not sure how this is showing young ladies how this is the right thing to do in life, but whatever. I will continue to watch my DD pitch the legal way and know that I'm doing the right thing. If an umpire wants to turn the blind eye and continue to allow blatant cheating to occur, that's on them.

And just out of curiosity, how long have you umpired? How many schools and clinics have you attended? How many times have you passed the test? Are you aware of the umpire's duties and responsibilities and the priorities assigned to each?

Point is you really don't know what the umpire sees or how s/he has been instructed to call it unless you have stood in his/her shoes. Are you aware there are not only scrimmages, but entire tournaments where the umpires are instructed to NOT call illegal pitches? And that is the TOURNAMENT'S decision, not the umpires or UIC.

Just the point that you refer to a mound on the field makes me question the level to which you really want to know about the game. What is happening has been explained to you by a very competent and rules-savvy umpire, including how to read the rule and how it is applied, but you choose to remain with your faulty agenda, and that's okay, but it is on you. The problem is, that has been noted by some, it just creates confusion among others who are reading the thread.

Next thing you know, you will be insisting the tie doesn't go to the runner.

 

[ms244]

And just out of curiosity, how long have you umpired? How many schools and clinics have you attended? How many times have you passed the test? Are you aware of the umpire's duties and responsibilities and the priorities assigned to each?

Point is you really don't know what the umpire sees or how s/he has been instructed to call it unless you have stood in his/her shoes. Are you aware there are not only scrimmages, but entire tournaments where the umpires are instructed to NOT call illegal pitches? And that is the TOURNAMENT'S decision, not the umpires or UIC.

Just the point that you refer to a mound on the field makes me question the level to which you really want to know about the game. What is happening has been explained to you by a very competent and rules-savvy umpire, including how to read the rule and how it is applied, but you choose to remain with your faulty agenda, and that's okay, but it is on you. The problem is, that has been noted by some, it just creates confusion among others who are reading the thread.

Next thing you know, you will be insisting the tie doesn't go to the runner.

Where do I start.....

I guess I would start as to why a tournament director would request that certain ASA rules would be "ignored". I thought that all rules applied to ASA games, not just the ones they want to enforce and the ones they want to ignore.

The UIC at the tournament was shown the photos (by a different parent) and that UIC determined that the pitch was illegal. My original question is why it wasn't called. I guess I know possibly why now? I don't need to attend a class, take a test or umpire a game to understand what constitutes an illegal pitch. She was illegal on at least two factors.

For the record I respect the time that it takes to train to umpire along with the time they put on the field. With that being said, if they miss a call is it disrespectful for me (or any other parent) to ask why? Not sure why you railed on me for asking questions, but whatever. You have an agenda and it clearly shows who side you are on without being in attendance to the event. If the UIC called it illegal it is illegal, right? My question is why it wasn't called during the game. For an umpire not to enforce the rules they are there to uphold is a discredit to them and the game. Not calling an IP in 12u and 14u will only hurt the player in the future.

This "very competent rules-savvy" umpire here in this thread also said it was an illegal pitch (without saying so). If the foot comes off the ground, it's illegal. If the pitcher steps in front of the pitching rubber it's illegal. She did both. That's fine. I knew it was illegal the moment it happened and the UIC confirmed it the next day. If you don't think it was an IP, whatever. You weren't there. Why do I know that the pitch was illegal? My DD has been called for an IP for doing the exact same thing as this pitcher did. We have since worked with our pitching coach to correct it.

My question was why doesn't it get called. You mentioning that the tournament director can pick and choose which rules to follow is interesting. Not sure what the rationale is there.

 

[Rocketech1]

The issue I have with the whole illegal pitch debate is that if and when it is called by umpires is arbitrary and capricious. Look at this pitcher below in post #44 and see if you think she is illegally "leaping" and/or "crow hopping"? Sure hasn't seem to stop her from having an amazing career at the collegiate, national, and international level. Compare and contrast that to Kenzi Fowler (AZ) who got derailed at the women's college world series a few years back because of all of the IPs called on her. Again, I think we should have the women adopt the men's rules with regards to pitching. If not then let's at least enforce the pitching rules consistently at each tournament.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/5208-model-pitchers-5.html

 

[MandM]

Have you seen pitchers who start their motion with arms going up in front of them, together, then a backswing, followed by the release? They don't pause while their hands are together for the 1 second. As was stated in Bret's post, it's a misconception. There is no pause requirement. They can pause if they choose.

It is my understanding that the 1-10 second the time frame is not referring necessarily to a "pause" and maybe that is the confusion- it refers to the period of time that the hands need to be together before they separate; signaling the technical beginning of the pitch. The ASA rules do not specify what the hands have to be doing during that time that they are together- meaning that the pitcher can bring hands together, and immediately raise them, as it is not until the hands separate that the pitch begins. The pitcher raising her hands together then proceeding into the back swing is her one second.

 

[splinterpicker]

Most showcases the umpires are told not to call illegal pitches. For right or wrong the games are about being scene than winning ball games. I am sure that many on here are umpires, but this proves that there are too many interpretations of a fairly simple rule and that is an issue to me.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

At the very least the alphabet organizations (ASA, USSSA, etc.) should adopt the NFHS rule, which allows a pitcher to step back off the pitching rubber as long as the next immediate movement is forward (i.e. no stepping back, then rocking back further)...JMHO...

 

[Bs61sdad]

First of all, the illegal pitcher isn't going to get recruited as a pitcher and is most likely a shortstop filling the role of pitcher to get through the game. Second of all, just tell the girls to hit ground balls up the middle. There's no way a crow hopping pitcher is going to be able to field a ball if she isn't even on the ground. I wouldn't lose sleep over how she is pitching. In fact, if I were you, I'd be sleeping better knowing your daughter is a legal pitcher and that other team had to use someone who can't even pitch legally.

 

[Rocketech1]

First of all, the illegal pitcher isn't going to get recruited as a pitcher and is most likely a shortstop filling the role of pitcher to get through the game. Second of all, just tell the girls to hit ground balls up the middle. There's no way a crow hopping pitcher is going to be able to field a ball if she isn't even on the ground. I wouldn't lose sleep over how she is pitching. In fact, if I were you, I'd be sleeping better knowing your daughter is a legal pitcher and that other team had to use someone who can't even pitch legally.

I have to disagree with you on two points. Illegal pitchers get recruited all the time. Did you see my above post and video link of Cat Osterman? Secondly, by the time the ball is released crow hoppers are firmly on the ground ready to field any ball hit to them.

 

[Bs61sdad]

I can't argue about Cat Osterman. I saw her pitch at a Racers game. She has quick feet and she throws 74 mph. She sell tickets. The majority of pitchers out there are rather sloppy. I also can't argue that a crow hopper's feet are planted on the ground at release. It's just that she is "planted" instead of lightly on the balls of her feet. It takes more energy, thus causing fatigue. The initial shock of planting ones feet makes me feel that it would be more difficult to field.