How to switch PCs without burning a bridge?

[Rocketech1]

You know hello elbow and IR aren't styles. They're something that happens after a pitch and something that happens during a pitch. One isn't necessary and the other happens on every high level pitch irregardless of teaching. It's silly to use either as cannon or reason.

-W

Respectively disagree. Forcing the arm and hand into a Hello Elbow finish absolutely effects the mechanics PRIOR to release. The action happens so quickly (fractions of a second) that it is impossible to completely separate what happens just prior to release to what happens immediately after release. The HE position does not allow internal rotation to complete its cycle but is a forced action shutting down IR before the release. HE creates tension instead of letting the arm and hand naturally whip into and through release.

BM has a simple demonstration of this action. Hold your arm straight out with palm to the sky and then rotate the hand 180degrees so its facing down and then rotate it back to palm to the sky. Do this quickly and the hand will blur. This is the fastest part of the body and should be used to maximum effect from 9:00 (palm to sky) to 6:00 (release) into the finish where internal rotation completes its cycle.

 

[starsnuffer]

Luckily, we have empirical evidence that the highest level pitchers in the world, who were "taught" to use HE still have extremely effective IR and arm whip during their actual pitching. What you are stating has more to do with the fact that drills, while good teaching devices, have little to do with full motion mechanics.

-W

 

[FastPitchCat]

Respectively disagree. Forcing the arm and hand into a Hello Elbow finish absolutely effects the mechanics PRIOR to release. The action happens so quickly (fractions of a second) that it is impossible to completely separate what happens just prior to release to what happens immediately after release. The HE position does not allow internal rotation to complete its cycle but is a forced action shutting down IR before the release. HE creates tension instead of letting the arm and hand naturally whip into and through release.

BM has a simple demonstration of this action. Hold your arm straight out with palm to the sky and then rotate the hand 180degrees so its facing down and then rotate it back to palm to the sky. Do this quickly and the hand will blur. This is the fastest part of the body and should be used to maximum effect from 9:00 (palm to sky) to 6:00 (release) into the finish where internal rotation completes its cycle.

i agree with this. case in point, my DD's team mate actually took a reverse course and went from IR to HE. duh! bad move. i guess you know what happened next.

 

[Rocketech1]

Luckily, we have empirical evidence that the highest level pitchers in the world, who were "taught" to use HE still have extremely effective IR and arm whip during their actual pitching. What you are stating has more to do with the fact that drills, while good teaching devices, have little to do with full motion mechanics.

-W

No, what I am saying is that forcing the arm and hand into a Hello Elbow finish is NEVER appropriate (in drill or full motion) unless you a purposely trying to take velocity and spin off of the pitch.

Most pitchers taught to finish HE will never reach their potential because they are handcuffed by poor arm whip mechanics, a select few might figure it out on their own but I would rather just find a PC who teaches correct mechanics instead of hoping my DD just naturally gets it.

 

[FP26]

I think it depends. My daughter is a good example of someone who struggled with HE. She wanted to "whip" the ball and her first coach tried to teach that out of her. "Keep palm forward. Release straight through, up, and point the elbow." Basically resisting the urge to rotate. Luckily for us, DD resisted this and continued using what was comfortable to her. I see many girls attempt to use HE mechanics by actually utilizing I/R first and then pointing the elbow after the fact. However, I do see some (mostly at younger ages) trying to prevent that internal rotation from occurring. To me it resembles the motion of a bowler and does not look comfortable at all.

 

[halskinner]

Not walking across the same bridge anymore,,, it might as well have burnt down. Either way, you wont be using that bridge anymore.

Had a HS freshman pitcher once, been working with her for a full year. She had a tremendous season, all sorts of awards and write ups in the paper. Then a former student of our academy (Hitting student) that was a pitching student of another instructor 40 miles away shows up and the owner let her teach pitching students there. My student's Dad came up to me after one lesson and said they were going to give her a try. That instructor was teaching a few lanes over from me at that moment. I looked at him and asked why, after all we had accomplished? He said the kid just wanted to try a female instructor.

I pointed out that she taught straight arm and locked elbow, along with the 'Brush the ear' mechanics and I did not. I told him as hard as we had her throwing now, if she did that, dont be surprised if her shoulder blows apart. He shrugged his shoulders and said they were gonna give her a try anyway.

Then he said "Well, never know, we may be back". At that point I replied "NO, you wont. You made your choice, now you can live with it. I wish her the best". I turned and walked away.

A few months after I was told that student had a major shoulder injury from pitching and would need surgery. A few months after that, that instructor quit.

My point being; the bridge will get burned, to one extent or another, by one person or the other. If the instructor is not at least slightly offended you leave, then they didnt care in the first place.

No matter how nicely, politely or however you do it, the instructor is being dumped for someone else and thats the bottom line.

 

[Jojo]

My favorite is when I heard, "My DD is now going to a former D1 shortstop who pitched in HS. We're doing a lot more wrist snaps and making sure the hand gets behind the ball."

Ah, my favorite. "We really love what you did with our DD and she really loves working with you, but it's important for us that she be throwing all her pitches right now if she's ever going to be able to pitch high school ball, and we just found this local kid that pitched in college and she's willing to teach her all the pitches at 10 years old, so we think it's best to move on".

Yea, just be honest. I want to know why you are moving on. Not because I want to defend myself, but because I really want to know the reason. Maybe it's something I can work on. But if it's about learning all the pitches at 9 & 10, I'm not going to change that

 

[Amy in AZ.]

No one ever tells me anything. They cancel and never show up again. Recently one of my 10 YOs asked me if _____ still comes to lessons. I said "No. I haven't seen her for 3 months." The little girl said "I knew it! Because she is all tight and shoving her elbow up in the air."

 

[BoardMember]

I think Star is just trying to make sure people understand that a follow through AFTER I/R is NOT the same as using a bowling motion to throw the ball.......

The problem is.........It takes a high level of understanding to know there is a difference.........MOST lay people who are involved don't have that knowledge base that Snuff or many of us have to decern the difference.......

SO.........We tend to simplify what H/E means to us..........

Example.........You CAN have I/R AND still finish elbow up AFTER RELEASE..........BUT you WILL FINISH Elbow Up/Palm Up IF YOU PUSH/BOWL the ball instead of whipping with I/R...........

Therefore.........Hello Elbow means BOWLING to more people then it means I/R with H/E finish..........

 

[EP Dad]

Example.........You CAN have I/R AND still finish elbow up AFTER RELEASE...........

Yep. This is how my DD pitches.