How do you throw a RISEBALL?

[lhowser]

How do you throw a RISEBALL?

13U daughter is pretty good. Good velocity in the low/mid 50's. Good control. Command of both sides of plate. Nice change and effective drop. Ready for...THE RISE.

From those who have succeeded teaching and throwing the rise how do you throw it. We've heard turning a door knob and screwing in a light but that does not seem to match the recent slo-mo posted here on DFP. I don't want to lead her down the wrong path with techniques that are not true even though a lot of people my say them (In other words i do not want the equivalent to Hello Elbow on the RISE).

How do you communicate the spin? In Sara Pauly clip in the RISEBALL SPIN thread she is not unscrewing a light bulb or turning a knob. She is internally rotating her wrist and removing all fingers from the ball except the index which gets the last push.

How much is posture and releasing later.

Would appreciate any help. It is the pitch she needs -

 

[crystlemc]

Len, we will make sure to have DD throw it to you guys if we play you at Mapleleaf...lol.

In all seriousness, The only thing I can contribute to this is that Hillhouse tells my daughter to brush the back of her forearm against her belly, and use her fingers to spin the ball from underneath and not her wrist. These are just the cues he uses with her. Sorry I am not much help...lol.

 

[Balls]

Search the Bill Hillhouse videos on youtube and find the clinic where he shows two balls joined together. This is the starting point for the rise and he shows you how to spin the ball.
It takes heaps of practice.

 

[Ken B]

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[Ken B]

Whip the fingertips under the ball.

Edit to add: Can she throw a good, flat spinning, palm up curve? If so, turn that curve on it's side.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

How do you throw a RISEBALL?

13U daughter is pretty good. Good velocity in the low/mid 50's. Good control. Command of both sides of plate. Nice change and effective drop. Ready for...THE RISE.

From those who have succeeded teaching and throwing the rise how do you throw it. We've heard turning a door knob and screwing in a light but that does not seem to match the recent slo-mo posted here on DFP. I don't want to lead her down the wrong path with techniques that are not true even though a lot of people my say them (In other words i do not want the equivalent to Hello Elbow on the RISE).

How do you communicate the spin? In Sara Pauly clip in the RISEBALL SPIN thread she is not unscrewing a light bulb or turning a knob. She is internally rotating her wrist and removing all fingers from the ball except the index which gets the last push.

How much is posture and releasing later.

Would appreciate any help. It is the pitch she needs -

Let's assume she's throwing her fastball/dropball at 53mph.

It isn't uncommon for someone learning to throw a riseball to throw it 6mph slower than their fastball/dropball. In this case that would be 47mph.

Let's also assume your daughter releases the ball 5ft from the rubber ... that works out to a pitching distance of 43ft-5ft-1.4ft = 36.6ft.

Let's also assume your daughter has a perfect back-spin at 25rps ... or 1500rpm.

Let's also assume that her release height is 2ft and that the top of the strike zone is 3.5ft.

In order for your daughter to throw a riseball profile where the pitch flattened and didn't drop, it would arrive at a pitch height of 5.26ft above the ground ... well above the strike zone ... and would have a profile as we see below.

In other words, at your daughter's pitch speed she isn't capable of achieving the ideal riseball profile and still throwing a strike. About all it could be used for is a chaser pitch ... and one that would be so far above the strike zone that it wouldn't be chased at by many.

Now, sticking with the assumption that your daughter could throw a true back-spin pitch, here's what the pitch profile would look like to throw a strike at a pitch height of 3.5ft.

The pitch would reach a peak height approximately 10.7ft from the plate and then drop 3" from there.

Now, let's assume that your daughter instead threw a bullet-spin, and was able to maintain her pitch speed of 53mph. That would allow her to throw a pitch with the profile below which would peak at 11.3ft prior to the plate and drop 4".

She's not quite ready to achieve a true riseball profile for a border-line strike. Pitch speed is a big factor in terms of being able to throw a good riseball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

In order for your daughter to achieve a true riseball profile .... where the ball is at the peak pitch height at the tip of the plate ... where she releases the ball at a pitch height of 2ft, achieves a strike at a pitch height of 3.5ft, throws a distance of 36.6ft, has a true back-spin ... she would need to throw at a velocity of 61mph. The pitch profile would look as follows.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

As a comparison, someone throwing a pure bullet-spin riseball at 68mph could achieve a strike at a pitch height of 3.5ft with the following profile. It would peak approximately 6ft prior to the plate and drop less than an inch (0.7-in).

 

[Balls]

A correctly thrown rise will not take 6mph off of a normal pitch.
As soon as a beginner pitcher is able to throw a strike consistantly and has reasonable throw mechanics I start them experimenting with side (like a UFO) and back spin.
As Ken stated a rise is similar to a palm up curve but on its side.
The best way to retain speed when throwing a true back spinning rise is to keep th thumb in front of the ball or at least on top of the ball until just before release.
A late/strong snap of the fingers/hand will generate the correct spin and keep the mph up.
You are better to learn to spin the ball asap, even if the ball wont look like one thrown by an elite pitcher, because it is a stepping stone to higher level pitching IMO.
Your DD's speed should increase in time and then she will allready have the spin to compliment the speed.
Dont be suprised if the spin is bullet spin to start with, this is pretty normal for a biginner but keep working for more back spin.
Good luck.

 

[riseball]

My DD throws her rise at 67-68 mph. I guess if she were to throw the bulletspin Wunderpitch that FFS is so fond of she would bring 73-74mph. I think not. I have seen some kids at the 14U level throwing decent riseballs in the low to mid-50's that are very effective pitches. Especially in bunt situations where they get quite a few pop-ups.