High school politics

[CoogansBluff]

If a player makes the varsity team just because they played the year before, players would not work as hard to keep their spot because if they know they don't have to earn it. I see it as a way to weed out the weaker players and/ or make them work to become better each year.

Not sure if that's true or not. Fair question.

If the player was a starter on varsity the season before, that player might not have as much incentive to work hard.

But if the player did not start, then they have the incentive to become a starter. And the returning starter must produce or she won't be a starter for long.

It could also be argued that a player doesn't feel that seniority is rewarded will not work as hard. Why spend a second year on JV if the coach is not going to give me any credit for that next year when I'm trying to beat out a freshman? Sometimes it is a motivator is a player can see that ''OK, I've got to be on JV two seasons, but if I pay my dues and get better, there is a very good chance I'll be on varsity as a junior and might even start as a senior.''

 

[Nimrod]

I am not taking a freshman over my producers of the prior year, just on daddy's say so and a few days of tryouts. Just not going to happen. But I will find a spot for that good player we take up, somewhere to give the starters a rest. There will be chances to prove whether she can be a producer, too.

A few weeks ago I was one of those daddies who thought my daughter was better than a player who is starting on varsity. My daughter is on JV. But I agree that the high school coach had no way of knowing that based on tryouts. There was not enough separation. I started a thread here about that and complained that tryouts were 3 days all indoors and questioned whether players and especially freshman got a fair shot and believed the coaches had already made up their mind.

But I agree that this is a very difficult situation for high school coaches. They have limited time to evaluate players to determine whether a new player is better than an established player or whether an old player has passed another old player in the off season. So it's understandable that they will favor last year's producers.

In our case, my daughter is on JV with no hope of playing on varsity unless she hits a homerun every game or bats 900. So unfortunately all important evaluation has taken place. Her fate is sealed.

Also there is no question that seniority plays a role on this team. There is a junior who made the team and never players who is weaker than half the JV. She is a good kid who works hard and I don't think they had the heart to cut her.

 

[Pdiddy]

I fear (and the numbers bear this out) that there may not be HS softball, and most likely no JV anymore, in about 10-15 years for those coaches to use in advertisements.

so back it up HS dude, enlighten us and give the link or whatever study you are citing to the "numbers" then....

as for seniority.....what about the HS coaches going to TB games to see incoming and current players actually playing rather than a few days of tryouts....the most successful HSA coaches know everything and the stats of their roster during TB.....the lazy ones bitch about TB and who they have ruined HS ball in the po-dunk areas....

 

[Nimrod]

How do you know the freshman is not as good as your "producer" from the year before if you don't give her a chance to show it in games? How often do you scout their travel ball games, which are of a much higher quality than any high school programs? How does one "prove" they are better than starters when they are only there, by design, to give said starters a rest?

Does a coach have the responsibility to scout travel ball? This is a good question.

When I say that I believe my daughter on JV is better than a starter on varsity I base that on travel ball and not on tryouts. My daughter was a teammate with this varsity player in travel ball two years ago and my daughter outplayed her. My daughter left that team for a stronger team. I am very confident in saying that she had a better year again.

But there is no way for a high school coach to know this unless she keeps up with travel ball and knows the teams. Even if the HS coach watched both of them play in a travel tournament, on any given weekend, anything might happen. But if they know travel ball and know the teams they can learn a lot based on where the travel ball teams puts them in the field and in the batting order. I know they cannot base it on travel ball but that would be a way to at least aleart a coach that I might need to be open minded to this freshman because she bats 4 for a team that is 6 runs better than the team that has 5 of my sophomores on it.

Does a high school coach have time to do this? Is it part of the job?

 

[Pdiddy]

Does a coach have the responsibility to scout travel ball? This is a good question.

Does a high school coach have time to do this? Is it part of the job?

yes and yes.....if they care about winning.

 

[Rocketech1]

Does a coach have the responsibility to scout travel ball? This is a good question.

When I say that I believe my daughter on JV is better than a starter on varsity I base that on travel ball and not on tryouts. My daughter was a teammate with this varsity player in travel ball two years ago and my daughter outplayed her. My daughter left that team for a stronger team. I am very confident in saying that she had a better year again.

But there is no way for a high school coach to know this unless she keeps up with travel ball and knows the teams. Even if the HS coach watched both of them play in a travel tournament, on any given weekend, anything might happen. But if they know travel ball and know the teams they can learn a lot based on where the travel ball teams puts them in the field and in the batting order. I know they cannot base it on travel ball but that would be a way to at least aleart a coach that I might need to be open minded to this freshman because she bats 4 for a team that is 6 runs better than the team that has 5 of my sophomores on it.

Does a high school coach have time to do this? Is it part of the job?

If they want to be successful they do. I know several high school coaches from private schools who have inquired about 12yo girls they may court. They know the good rec leagues and local travel ball organizations and do come out to some tournaments to look at players. The fastpitch community is a relatively small one and staying in touch with coaches, players, and their families seems like a reasonable approach.

 

[YOCOACH]

IMO, I think you'll see the "Seniority" mentality come into play in the more heavily unionized areas of the country than you will anywhere else. We live in such an area and I can tell you that most, not all, but most of the larger high schools in our area rely on that mentality. Last year, our local HS team graduated 8 Seniors. Out of those 8, only one was a TB player and 1 other was an outstanding player that worked on her game year round. The other 6 were mediocre at best. They had much better players on JV which consisted mostly of TB players. The coaches excuse was the Seniors had much more experience. My first thought upon hearing that was that the TB players on JV had more games under their belt in their one 12u TB season than most of the Seniors had in their entire HS career.

Now the maturity level is a given. The Seniors were much more mature and did handle the pressure well. That being said, the TB players were every bit as able to handle the pressure, maybe more so IMO, because they had more game experience.

So now, we're into this year and the Varsity starters consist of 1 Senior, 1 Junior, 1 Freshman and the rest are Sophomores. The only player not a TB player is the Senior and believe me, it showed yesterday in our season opener. She committed 4 errors which allowed 3 runs to score; the 3 runs we lost by. Again, there is a much better TB 3rd baseperson in the dugout IMO. The TB player outhits the Senior, is a better fielder, has a better arm, has quicker reflexes, is faster running yet, because the Senior "paid her dues" on JV for three years is starting. Maybe this will change if we make it to playoffs but for right now, it is what it is.

As a side note, we also have 4 Junior former rec ball players that are on Varsity but they more than likely will not see the field much this year if yesterdays game is any indication. I wonder how sitting on the bench and getting no reps benefits them when they could be starting JV?

 

[33pitchfast]

We do not have this problem at our high school but have no dought it does at some and that is many high school coaches wouldnt know talent and good mechanics if it hit them in the face with a sledge hammer. When my daughter was 12 all I heard from that travel ball coach was that we needed to get them ready for high school ball. Doesnt take much at most high schools.

 

[riseball]

We do not have this problem at our high school but have no dought it does at some and that is many high school coaches wouldnt know talent and good mechanics if it hit them in the face with a sledge hammer. When my daughter was 12 all I heard from that travel ball coach was that we needed to get them ready for high school ball. Doesnt take much at most high schools.

When we have a player show up at our TB tryouts that is concerned with improving their skill level for HS ball we thank them and wish them luck finding a team. We want players that aspire to a much higher level of play.

 

[Nimrod]

The coaches excuse was the Seniors had much more experience.

I wish a coach in this situation would just be honest and say that they reward seniority. It's not against the law so why not acknowledge it? Even if I disagree with that way of thinking I can respect that it is not my team but the high school team and the coach and school have a right to pick the team however they want. But our coach said in a parent meeting ''we know the players abilities and we put them where they can succeed.'' Well, no, you don't know their abilities. You are finding out their abilities during the season as a couple of the sophomore starters are batting .100. If you really want to know their abilities, know what travel teams they play on and how their coaches use them. I wish they would just say "We do the best to evaluate the players in a very limited amount of time we have and we prefer players that have been in the program longer because we are more sure about what they can and can't do. You might not agree but we've won a bunch of games over the years and this has worked for us.'' Then all we have is an honest disagreement.