High school politics

[JAD]

It can definitely cause turmoil, depending on the dynamics of the team.

In a system that rewards seniority, more players will have a shot at starting at some point in their careers. For example, you will have more 1-year and 2-year starters and fewer 3-year and 4-year starters if you reward seniority. You'll have more players over time who got to be a starter, for at least one year. You'll have more people who got to be on varsity if you reward seniority. As a result, the players are more motivated and willing to toil on JV because there is a greater chance that their hard work will pay off, either by getting to starter, or even making varsity. Really outstanding freshmen or sophomores might be willing to sacrifice one year on varsity, or one year as a starter, when they see that it will benefit them later as well.

I"m not saying that's the way it ought to be, but I've seen how it can work.

Most of the freshman girls didn't really care if they were starters, they just wanted to earn a varsity letter, so as long as they met the minimum requirement for innings played, they were happy! Not many freshman or sophomores have a varsity letter jacket at a 6-A school in our area.

 

[CoogansBluff]

"Reality" means that these girls aren't going to get that job at Microsoft or AT&T and they're not going to get into med school or law school simply because they keep applying for two years. They'll have to compete for their spot in life, not have it handed to them because they've gotten a few years older.

But that's a realistic portrayal of all reality. ...

What you're describing is a purely competitive situation, best man (or woman) wins. That's appropriate for much of life.

But there also is value in rewarding seniority sometimes. Most people don't compete for their jobs every day. Most need to perform at a certain level to remain employed, but won't be fired just because somebody more skilled at any moment might want our job. In certain jobs, employees perform better with that security, and with the belief that time served has value, that they will have a better chance at promotion, etc.

That doesn't mean I disagree with how you would run a HS team. I just don't think it's fair to say that we're cheating kids out of a vital life's lesson if seniority is a factor in deciding who's on the roster or in the starting lineup. It's a good life's lesson no matter which way you structure the team.

 

[NEF]

1) You want to get paid, you have to put up with the nonsense at work.
2) You want to drive a car, you have to put with the nonsense of waiting at a red light even though there are no cars within 20 miles.
3) You want to be an engineer, you have to put up with the nonsense of professors and colleges.
4) You want to get on the Internet, you have to put up with the nonsense of your internet provider (Verizon, can you hear me?).

The list is endless.

Parents (as I did) create a more or less perfect environment for our kids on these TB teams. As soon as the kids leave the perfect environment we created for them, they run into "reality".

Reality: Where the world doesn't revolve around your DD, and people have interests and concerns other than your DD's happiness.

Amanda Scarborough's blog about this is fantastic. Read it. (Blog - Amanda Scarborough)

I agree that at some time you will need to put up with a degree of nonsense, but there are choices, private vs public sector jobs, a bunch of engineering schools to choose from, heck when I started college the juniors and seniors would tell you to take this professors class over another (same subject) because he/she would let you hand in work early so you could go to away games.

 

[mann]

The seniority thing is not a given, and I would say it's not there at all. Why would a coach care about seniority--ie what is the pay off for the coach and school?

Most of the times, the freshman is just not as good, not as poised, not as mature, not as strong. I am not taking a freshman over my producers of the prior year, just on daddy's say so and a few days of tryouts. Just not going to happen. But I will find a spot for that good player we take up, somewhere to give the starters a rest. There will be chances to prove whether she can be a producer, too.

HS ball has a long term to it, where you just can't dump upper classmen for what may or may not be the next bit thing. If you do that, you do not encourage the work ethic or commitment needed. You just churn and burn until no one will tryout, and the juniors will quit after JV and the seniors will quit senior year, there not being a future for most in softball.

I can tell you every TB team in our area advertises their commitment to get kids ready for HS ball. I fear (and the numbers bear this out) that there may not be HS softball, and most likely no JV anymore, in about 10-15 years for those coaches to use in advertisements.

what would teachers do for extra money?

 

[Little Angels Softball]

The seniority thing is not a given, and I would say it's not there at all. Why would a coach care about seniority--ie what is the pay off for the coach and school?

Most of the times, the freshman is just not as good, not as poised, not as mature, not as strong. I am not taking a freshman over my producers of the prior year, just on daddy's say so and a few days of tryouts. Just not going to happen. But I will find a spot for that good player we take up, somewhere to give the starters a rest. There will be chances to prove whether she can be a producer, too.

HS ball has a long term to it, where you just can't dump upper classmen for what may or may not be the next bit thing. If you do that, you do not encourage the work ethic or commitment needed. You just churn and burn until no one will tryout, and the juniors will quit after JV and the seniors will quit senior year, there not being a future for most in softball.

I can tell you every TB team in our area advertises their commitment to get kids ready for HS ball. I fear (and the numbers bear this out) that there may not be HS softball, and most likely no JV anymore, in about 10-15 years for those coaches to use in advertisements.

This is probably the most contradictory post I've ever seen. How do you know the freshman is not as good as your "producer" from the year before if you don't give her a chance to show it in games? How often do you scout their travel ball games, which are of a much higher quality than any high school programs? How does one "prove" they are better than starters when they are only there, by design, to give said starters a rest?

Who cares if the juniors and seniors quit after JV if they weren't good enough to make varsity anyway? Why would anybody not give another girl a chance because there was a "producer" (in high school, no less) who played the year before?

If that mentality were followed in all walks of life, everything would fold and there wouldn't be anything ever again.

You absolutely do not encourage "work ethic" by saying you'll keep those who have come before without competition. In fact, without competition, you discourage work ethic. "I'll start next year because I have seniority. The freshman who beat me out on my travel team has no chance to beat me out in high school because I am older than her."

Whatever.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Does "seniority" matter in high school ball? I haven't seen that to be the case.

 

[33pitchfast]

What happens when said freshman in scrimmage games allows no balls out of the infield over 20-25 innings against the varsity and said upper classmen are getting hit hard by the JV! Would you say said freshman isnt as good? OILF do you own a crack pipe, if so I would throw it away!

 

[riseball]

The seniority thing is not a given, and I would say it's not there at all. Why would a coach care about seniority--ie what is the pay off for the coach and school?

Most of the times, the freshman is just not as good, not as poised, not as mature, not as strong. I am not taking a freshman over my producers of the prior year, just on daddy's say so and a few days of tryouts. Just not going to happen. But I will find a spot for that good player we take up, somewhere to give the starters a rest. There will be chances to prove whether she can be a producer, too.

HS ball has a long term to it, where you just can't dump upper classmen for what may or may not be the next bit thing. If you do that, you do not encourage the work ethic or commitment needed. You just churn and burn until no one will tryout, and the juniors will quit after JV and the seniors will quit senior year, there not being a future for most in softball.

I can tell you every TB team in our area advertises their commitment to get kids ready for HS ball. I fear (and the numbers bear this out) that there may not be HS softball, and most likely no JV anymore, in about 10-15 years for those coaches to use in advertisements.

As the previous poster asked; what are you smoking? If the Juniors quit after JV, where are the Seniors coming from?

As to seniority and HS sports the sense of entitlement found in education transcends to the athletic fields. Like teaching if you have been their longer than your peers you have a level of security that is irrespective of your abilities. Your bias in that regard is quite clear in your post.

 

[Crystol Owens Brown]

If a player makes the varsity team just because they played the year before, players would not work as hard to keep their spot because if they know they don't have to earn it. I see it as a way to weed out the weaker players and/ or make them work to become better each year.

 

[chinamigarden]

If a player makes the varsity team just because they played the year before, players would not work as hard to keep their spot because if they know they don't have to earn it. I see it as a way to weed out the weaker players and/ or make them work to become better each year.

I've seen A few girls who had their best years as frosh or soph and just look average their junior and senior years. For some it's true they coast once they are entrenched. Others play hard regardless.