That umpire appears to have messed up also. NCAA rules are completely different than every other softball rule set. When a ball goes out of play, the defense cannot make a dead ball appeal until the ball is put back into play and made live again.
Hemphill home run
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That umpire appears to have messed up also. NCAA rules are completely different than every other softball rule set. When a ball goes out of play, the defense cannot make a dead ball appeal until the ball is put back into play and made live again.
[MENTION=426]Comp[/MENTION] what about the umpire turning his back on the plate to hand the ball to the pitcher? I would think he would have maintained focus until he could be sure the runner was not returning.
I just checked with a forum with guys that do NCAA.
Once the umpire gives a new ball to the catcher they can appeal in this situation.
Since it has been shown twice on video without a protest I will take them at their word.
Well, the NCAA has release ANOTHER ruling on this. Apparently after receiving numerous responses from officials across the country pointing out it would be impossible to make a dead ball appeal since the ball has to be made live again they have issued a new ruling. It is no longer required to make the ball live again, the official simply has to give another ball to the defense. But, the new ball cannot be used to tag the runner or the missed base for the appeal, it simply allows the defense to now make a verbal dead ball appeal. (Still a little stupid requiring a new ball simply to make a verbal appeal) BUT, in the end they still say the runner has up until they enter the dugout to return and touch the plate and a verbal appeal cannot be made until the runner has entered the dugout.
This is starting to sound like they're making it up as they go along...
Ya think????? Although I need to read the new ruling again, I'm seeing people saying the runner can attempt to correct their base running error prior to entering the dugout but it must be done prior to the dead ball appeal.
This is a lot like a couple of years ago when they initially ruled the taped on toe flap was a legal to plate to fix a leaping pitcher, then a week later had to retract it because it was so ludicrous.
This is a lot like a couple of years ago when they initially ruled the taped on toe flap was a legal to plate to fix a leaping pitcher, then a week later had to retract it because it was so ludicrous.
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In NFHS and USA can't they just ask for a dead ball appeal while the runner is heading towards the dugout?
Is giving the catcher a new ball necessary?
Or does the umpire have to wait until she enters the dugout?
And suppose she is clueless and is being dragged back to the plate by a coach or her teammates?
Is giving the catcher a new ball necessary?
Or does the umpire have to wait until she enters the dugout?
And suppose she is clueless and is being dragged back to the plate by a coach or her teammates?
Nfhs and USA do not require a ball to make a dead ball appeal. The rules say the runner must be given the opportunity to correct their error prior to the umpire accepting the dead ball appeal. But, the rules do not specify exactly what constitutes an opportunity. It pretty much becomes umpire judgement as to when to accept the dead ball appeal.
- Jun 22, 2008
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From USA Softball:
There has been a lot of discussion about the SEC College missed home plate call. Here is the USA Softball comments from Directior of Umpires Kevin Ryan:
We have received a lot of questions and concerns on this play. It appears the NCAA rule and ours have some subtle differences. First in Fast Pitch we do not
consider an over the fence home run a four base ward. The ball by definition is out of play but runners have live ball base running responsibilities. On this play
several rules come into play.
Rule 8, Section 7I: (Dead Ball Appeal) Once the ball has been returned to the infield and time is called, any infielder with or without possession of the ball,
may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. No runner may leave a base during this period as the ball
remains dead until the next pitch.
a) If the ball leaves live ball territory, a dead ball appeal cannot be made until completion of all legal advancement by base runners.
b) If the pitcher has possession of the ball and is in contact with the pitchers plate when making a verbal appeal, no illegal pitch is called.
c) If “play ball” has been declared by the umpire and the pitcher then requests an appeal, the umpire shall call “time” and allow the appeal process.
Rule 8, Section 5G[2] Exception: When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked
Effect:
1 All runners shall be awarded two bases.
2 The award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the ball left the fielder’s hand.
Note: Runners must return to touch a base missed or left too soon. When two runners are between the same two bases, the award is based
on the position of the lead runner. Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base
missed or left too soon.
Exception: When the ball becomes dead, runners must return to touch a base missed or left too soon if they have advanced, touched, and are a
base beyond the base missed or left too soon.
Note: Runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities. A runner shall not be declared out if a fielder deliberately
carries or throws the ball into dead ball territory to prevent that runner from returning to a base missed or left too soon. Once a runner leaves live ball
territory they cannot return to touch any base missed or left too soon.
Rule 8 Section 7E: When any offensive team member, other than another runner, physically assists a runner while the ball is live.
Effect:
1 The ball remains live.
2 The runner being assisted is out.
Exception – Section E: After a runner has scored and missed home plate and then is physically assisted back to home plate:
1 The ball is dead.
2 The runner is out and the run is nullified.
We do not differentiate a dead ball appeal when the ball is out of play or the umpire calls time. In neither case does the ball need
to be put back into play. Because the runner has live ball base running responsibilities missing home plate falls into that category.
By rule the umpire should give her time to come back and touch home plate, time is pure judgement on the umpire part. Once the
umpire decides she has had the time and the defense appeals with or without a ball verbally that runner can be called out. So we would
have had an out in that play for missing home plate.
However another thing overlooked in this play was the assisting the runner to go back and touch home plate by the first base coach.
In our rule we would have an out for that also as we state in Rule 8, Section 7E Exception. I believe in NCAA assisting a runner in a dead ball situation is only a warning.
There has been a lot of discussion about the SEC College missed home plate call. Here is the USA Softball comments from Directior of Umpires Kevin Ryan:
We have received a lot of questions and concerns on this play. It appears the NCAA rule and ours have some subtle differences. First in Fast Pitch we do not
consider an over the fence home run a four base ward. The ball by definition is out of play but runners have live ball base running responsibilities. On this play
several rules come into play.
Rule 8, Section 7I: (Dead Ball Appeal) Once the ball has been returned to the infield and time is called, any infielder with or without possession of the ball,
may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. No runner may leave a base during this period as the ball
remains dead until the next pitch.
a) If the ball leaves live ball territory, a dead ball appeal cannot be made until completion of all legal advancement by base runners.
b) If the pitcher has possession of the ball and is in contact with the pitchers plate when making a verbal appeal, no illegal pitch is called.
c) If “play ball” has been declared by the umpire and the pitcher then requests an appeal, the umpire shall call “time” and allow the appeal process.
Rule 8, Section 5G[2] Exception: When the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked
Effect:
1 All runners shall be awarded two bases.
2 The award shall be governed by the position of the runners when the ball left the fielder’s hand.
Note: Runners must return to touch a base missed or left too soon. When two runners are between the same two bases, the award is based
on the position of the lead runner. Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base
missed or left too soon.
Exception: When the ball becomes dead, runners must return to touch a base missed or left too soon if they have advanced, touched, and are a
base beyond the base missed or left too soon.
Note: Runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities. A runner shall not be declared out if a fielder deliberately
carries or throws the ball into dead ball territory to prevent that runner from returning to a base missed or left too soon. Once a runner leaves live ball
territory they cannot return to touch any base missed or left too soon.
Rule 8 Section 7E: When any offensive team member, other than another runner, physically assists a runner while the ball is live.
Effect:
1 The ball remains live.
2 The runner being assisted is out.
Exception – Section E: After a runner has scored and missed home plate and then is physically assisted back to home plate:
1 The ball is dead.
2 The runner is out and the run is nullified.
We do not differentiate a dead ball appeal when the ball is out of play or the umpire calls time. In neither case does the ball need
to be put back into play. Because the runner has live ball base running responsibilities missing home plate falls into that category.
By rule the umpire should give her time to come back and touch home plate, time is pure judgement on the umpire part. Once the
umpire decides she has had the time and the defense appeals with or without a ball verbally that runner can be called out. So we would
have had an out in that play for missing home plate.
However another thing overlooked in this play was the assisting the runner to go back and touch home plate by the first base coach.
In our rule we would have an out for that also as we state in Rule 8, Section 7E Exception. I believe in NCAA assisting a runner in a dead ball situation is only a warning.
