Fastballs Good Enough for MLB

[ConorMacleod]

I think you are all overcomplicating things. In pitching, it's all about location and hitting your spots. A MLB fastball down the middle at 99 mph tends to leave the park doing 101. In the playoffs, you're seeing the best pitchers in baseball. If they hit their spots, with fastballs or any other pitch, advantage goes to the pitcher. It's the same with fastpitch. Hit your spots and keep the hitter off balance, change the plane of their eye contact, and a pitcher will be successful. Now, that's all incredibly hard to do with a lot of consistency of course!

 

[Mrek]

In baseball, fastballs are actually faster then breaking pitches. In fastpitch, this is not the case. With the exception of the changeup, very few pitches are offspeed, and those that are are usually unsuccessful in later stages of the game.

The definition of a fastball in fastpitch is a pitch that does not break.

-W

Agree. BB fastball is generally 8-10% faster than say a Slider. And 20% faster than Curve.
If a SB pitcher throws her spin pitches at 64-65, and then could command a 71 MPH fastball, it would be effective at any level.
Not to the tune of throwing it 50% of the time, but as an "up-speed" change.

All of the physical differences in the two games also add up as to why FB is more effective in BB.

SB larger ball does not break as much.
SB larger ball slows down more between release and hitting zone.
SB thrown on a flatter plane.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

There are variations of the fastball in BB by speed, cutter-runner-sinking-rising. Even MLB pitchers will + or - speed to get a pitch to react differently, but for the most part its still a fastball. And they are still classified as fastballs. I'll never understand why FP feels the need to distance themselves in classification of pitches but align themselves with batting technics. If you wanted to REALLY go strictly by definition, FP is throwing a fastball drop, fastball rise, fastball curve, fastball screw.

 

[Greenmonsters]

There are variations of the fastball in BB by speed, cutter-runner-sinking-rising. Even MLB pitchers will + or - speed to get a pitch to react differently, but for the most part its still a fastball. And they are still classified as fastballs. I'll never understand why FP feels the need to distance themselves in classification of pitches but align themselves with batting technics. If you wanted to REALLY go strictly by definition, FP is throwing a fastball drop, fastball rise, fastball curve, fastball screw.

Good points GD. In FP it seems that there's only 1 off speed pitch - the change up. FP could take a book from pitchers like Greg Maddux, who was successful because he fearlessly hit spots and mixed speeds. As controversial as Hal may seem he is dead right that truly mIxing speeds is under appreciated and under utilized in FP.

 

[Indiana]

DD is a case in point: when her change-up is working she's in complete control of the game. If her change-up is off.... let's just say the outfield gets one heck of a workout!

P.S - I was thinking along the same lines as GM last week after watching Verlander dismantle Oakland. My suggestion to DD - the fastball/change-up works for MLB, so how about it? (which was really a thinly veiled attempt to get DD to appreciate her change-up more) was met with an eye roll, a sigh, a dismissive wave and complete, whithering distain. Ah to be 16 again.

 

[James Smith]

Their fastballs move, the minors is full of 95+ pitchers that have straight fastballs.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

There are variations of the fastball in BB by speed, cutter-runner-sinking-rising. Even MLB pitchers will + or - speed to get a pitch to react differently, but for the most part its still a fastball. And they are still classified as fastballs. I'll never understand why FP feels the need to distance themselves in classification of pitches but align themselves with batting technics. If you wanted to REALLY go strictly by definition, FP is throwing a fastball drop, fastball rise, fastball curve, fastball screw.

Pitches are categorized primarily by the motion required to produce them. Fastballs in BB are all basically thrown with the same arm/wrist motion at release and the main difference between them is grip and/or finger pressure. The FP pitches are produced mainly by a different arm/wrist motion at release.

 

[starsnuffer]

Pitches are categorized primarily by the motion required to produce them. Fastballs in BB are all basically thrown with the same arm/wrist motion at release and the main difference between them is grip and/or finger pressure. The FP pitches are produced mainly by a different arm/wrist motion at release.

Hrm, sort of. I think the bucket dads and oblivious coaches do really categorize pitches by the motion that the pitcher goes through when throwing. Sadly though, most of these pitches come out exactly the same and really are just fastballs high, fastballs low, fastballs inside, and fastballs outside. The bucket-commander, of course, is calling the pitches riseballs, drop balls, curves, and screws.

In reality, the pitch is categorized by the spin the ball has. Spin, and spin alone is what defines the pitch, and how it will move. No amount of smoke, mirrors, angles, and wrist gymnastics have any impact whatsoever on the ball once it leaves the pitchers hand, only spin. I've seen more then one pitcher humbled by a good coach/pitcher who's called the pitcher on what they were actually throwing vs what they called the pitch.

-W

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Hrm, sort of. I think the bucket dads and oblivious coaches do really categorize pitches by the motion that the pitcher goes through when throwing. Sadly though, most of these pitches come out exactly the same and really are just fastballs high, fastballs low, fastballs inside, and fastballs outside. The bucket-commander, of course, is calling the pitches riseballs, drop balls, curves, and screws.

In reality, the pitch is categorized by the spin the ball has. Spin, and spin alone is what defines the pitch, and how it will move. No amount of smoke, mirrors, angles, and wrist gymnastics have any impact whatsoever on the ball once it leaves the pitchers hand, only spin. I've seen more then one pitcher humbled by a good coach/pitcher who's called the pitcher on what they were actually throwing vs what they called the pitch.

-W

I agree many pitchers don't really execute the pitches they claim to throw. That is a separate discussion.

I also agree that spin dictates how the ball will move. How is the spin generated?

Curves, screws, drops and rises each one spins in a different direction. Each one requires a different release motion in FP to generate the proper spin, so they are categorized as different pitches.

The main categories for pitches in BB are fastball, curve, slider, change-up and knuckleball - each one has a different throwing and/or release motion. There are various types of fastballs with different spins that are achieved by just a different grip and/or finger pressure - however they are all still categorized as fastballs.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I agree many pitchers don't really execute the pitches they claim to throw. That is a separate discussion.

I also agree that spin dictates how the ball will move. How is the spin generated?

Curves, screws, drops and rises each have a different axis of rotation. Each one requires a different release motion in FP to generate the proper spin, so they are categorized as different pitches.

The main categories for pitches in BB are fastball, curve, slider, change-up and knuckleball - each one has a different throwing and/or release motion. There are various types of fastballs with different spins that are achieved by just a different grip and/or finger pressure - however they are all still categorized as fastballs.

Too many get hung up on the semantics. Idealistically, regardless of whether its BB or FP, there are 2 primary spin axes - horizontal axis for "straight" pitches that may or may not have significant vertical movement (i.e., fastball, splitfinger, forkball, rise, drop, change) and vertical axis for "breaking" pitches that have horizontal movement (i.e., curve and screwball). In real-life application, as many have noted, rarely do we see true 6-12, 12-6, 3-9, or 9-3 rotation, so most pitches are thrown with hybrid rotation on an axis deviant from the primary axes (i.e., crop, crise, scrise, scrop, crap, slider, cutter, 2-seam FB, tailing FB).

IMO, forget the semantics and mix speeds on all pitches and the FB (or one of its variants) can be a go to pitch because hitting is about timing, and pitching is about upsetting timing.